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Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

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Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#321

Post by frereubu »

toxik wrote: post #264
laumars wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not just you. I have pictures of my kids playing in the bath. No genitals are in shot and it’s just kids innocently playing with bubbles. The photos aren’t even shared but they’d still get scanned by this tool. This kind of thing isn’t even unusual either. I know my parents have pictures of myself and my siblings playing in the bath (obviously taken on film rather than digital photography) and I know friends hav…

> No genitals are in shot That you even have to consider sexual interpretations of your BABY'S GENITALS is an affront to me. I have pictures of my baby completely naked, because it is, and I stress this, A BABY. They play naked all the time, it's completely normal.

Don't immediately take affront, take the best possible interpretation of the parent comment. This is about automatic scanning of people's photo libraries in the context of searching for child pornography, presumably through some kind of ML. It seems to me that the concern of the commenter is that if there are photos of their child's genitals that they'll be questioned about creating child pornography, not that they're squeamish about photographing their child's genitals. This happened in 1995 in the UK: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/julia-somerville-defends-...

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#322

Post by pseudalopex »

Santosh83 wrote: post #94
pseudalopex wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea is it detects specific images humans classified. Not any unclothed child.

So far. Many websites already use NN trained to detect any nudity. It is only a matter of time before it lands on all consumer computing devices. The noose will keep on tightening because people keep debating instead of protesting.

Nudity detectors are decades old. People use them when they want to block any nudity. Making iCloud servers scan for nudity would have been simpler than making this new system. And pornography is easier to access than ever for most people.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#323

Post by dredmorbius »

headmelted wrote: post #241
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #3

So if I understand correctly, they want to scan all your photos, stored on your private phone, that you paid for, and they want to check if any of the hashes are the same as hashes of child porn? So... all your hashes will be uploaded to the cloud? How do you prevent them from scanning other stuff (memes, leaked documents, trump-fights-cnn-gif,... to profile the users)? Or will a huge hash database of child porn hash…

This is the big one right here. A malware will definitely be created, almost immediately, that will download files that are intentionally made to match CP - either for the purposes of extortion or just watching the world burn. I'm usually sticking my neck out in defence of more government access to private media than most on HN because of the need to stop CP, but this plan is so naive, and so incredibly irresponsible…

Signal famously implemented, or at least claimed to implement, a rather similar-sounding feature as a countermeasure against the Cellebrite forensics tool:

https://signal.org/blog/cellebrite-vulnerabilities/

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#324

Post by frereubu »

disiplus wrote: post #217
jsjohnst wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have direct knowledge of examples of where individuals were arrested and convicted of sharing CP online and they were identified because a previous employer I worked for used PhotoDNA analysis on all user uploaded images. So yeah, this type of thing can catch bad people. I’m still not convinced Apple doing this is a good thing, especially on private media content without a warrant, even though the technology can he…

now im afraid, i have two young children < 5 years old. i have occasionally took pictures of them naked with some bumps on the skin or mosquito bite and sent them to my wife over whatsapp to look at and decide do we need to send them to doctor, do i have to fear now that i will be marked as distributing CP.

This kind of thing happened in 1995 in the UK in the context of film development, so it's not very far-fetched: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/julia-somerville-defends-...

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#325

Post by srj »

disiplus wrote: post #217
jsjohnst wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have direct knowledge of examples of where individuals were arrested and convicted of sharing CP online and they were identified because a previous employer I worked for used PhotoDNA analysis on all user uploaded images. So yeah, this type of thing can catch bad people. I’m still not convinced Apple doing this is a good thing, especially on private media content without a warrant, even though the technology can he…

now im afraid, i have two young children < 5 years old. i have occasionally took pictures of them naked with some bumps on the skin or mosquito bite and sent them to my wife over whatsapp to look at and decide do we need to send them to doctor, do i have to fear now that i will be marked as distributing CP.

I don't have knowledge of how Apple is using this, but based on what I know about how it's used at Google this would be flagging previously reviewed images. That wouldn't include your family photos, but are generally hash-type matches of images circulating online. The images would need to depict actual abuse of a child to be CSAM.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#326

Post by xyzal »

keyme wrote: post #221

Dear humans, 1) You willingly delegated the decision of what code is allowed to run on your devices to the manufacturer (2009). Smart voices warned you of today's present even then. 2) You willingly got yourself irrevocably vendor-locked by participating in their closed social networks, so that it's almost impossible to leave (2006). 3) You willingly switched over essentially all human communication to said social ne…

The fact that even the 'smart' people from HN can't wait for their new M1 laptop to arrive convinced me that humans are a lost cause.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#327

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

keyme wrote: post #221

Dear humans, 1) You willingly delegated the decision of what code is allowed to run on your devices to the manufacturer (2009). Smart voices warned you of today's present even then. 2) You willingly got yourself irrevocably vendor-locked by participating in their closed social networks, so that it's almost impossible to leave (2006). 3) You willingly switched over essentially all human communication to said social ne…

This sort of scanning has existed for well over a decade, and was originally developed by Microsoft (search PhotoDNA).

The only thing that's changed here is that there is more encryption around, and so legal guidelines are being written to facilitate this, which has been happening for a long, long time.

(I don't disagree with your overall point, and child porn is definitely the thin edge of the wedge, but this isn't new and presumably shouldn't be too surprising for any current/former megacorp as they all have systems like this).

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#330

Post by layoutIfNeeded »

bississippi wrote: post #179
SilverRed wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one here has a problem with the worst criminals being taken out. The problem is the scope creep that always comes after. In 2021 and 2020 we saw people being arrested for planning/promoting anti lockdown protests. Not for actually participating but for simply posting about it. The scope of what "harmful content" is is infinite. You might agree that police do need to take action against these people but surely you…

We also saw HN shadow banning entire IP CIDR blocks because they didn’t like argument against fleeting CDC guidance that was put forth or the Chinese lab origin theory in 2020. You can’t register from these CIDR blocks. If you had an account before the comments would just end up in a black hole. Dang can explain.

@dang is that true? :O
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