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Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

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Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#221

Post by keyme »

Dear humans,

1) You willingly delegated the decision of what code is allowed to run on your devices to the manufacturer (2009). Smart voices warned you of today's present even then.

2) You willingly got yourself irrevocably vendor-locked by participating in their closed social networks, so that it's almost impossible to leave (2006).

3) You willingly switched over essentially all human communication to said social networks, despite the obvious warning signs. (2006-2021)

4) Finally you showed no resistance to these private companies when they started deciding what content should be allowed or banned, even when it got purely political (2020).

Now they're getting more brazen. And why shouldn't they? You'll obey.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#222

Post by laumars »

disiplus wrote: post #217
jsjohnst wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have direct knowledge of examples of where individuals were arrested and convicted of sharing CP online and they were identified because a previous employer I worked for used PhotoDNA analysis on all user uploaded images. So yeah, this type of thing can catch bad people. I’m still not convinced Apple doing this is a good thing, especially on private media content without a warrant, even though the technology can he…

now im afraid, i have two young children < 5 years old. i have occasionally took pictures of them naked with some bumps on the skin or mosquito bite and sent them to my wife over whatsapp to look at and decide do we need to send them to doctor, do i have to fear now that i will be marked as distributing CP.

It’s not just you. I have pictures of my kids playing in the bath. No genitals are in shot and it’s just kids innocently playing with bubbles. The photos aren’t even shared but they’d still get scanned by this tool.

This kind of thing isn’t even unusual either. I know my parents have pictures of myself and my siblings playing in the bath (obviously taken on film rather than digital photography) and I know friends have pictures of their kids too.

While the difference between innocent images and something explicit easy for a human to identify, I’m not sure I’d trust AI to understand that nuance.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#224

Post by no_time »

somuchlan wrote: post #81

Well this really debunks my common phrase “Apple is a Privacy company, not a Security company” I can’t say I’m surprised they are implementing this (if true), under the radar. I can’t imagine a correct way or platform for Apple to share this rollout publicly. I’m sure nothing will come of this, press will ignore the story, and we all go back to our iPhones

Apple, like all companies is a Money company.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#225

Post by mhitza »

SilverRed wrote: post #113
sebyx07 wrote: post #75

4 good reasons why you should buy a iphone - (Check) fragile - (Check) best monopoly app store - (Check) high price - (Check) phones the police in case of a sha collision

I seriously doubt Google is going to have a different opinion on this. They already scan google drive content for mere copyright violations.

I just assumed the entire FAANG group scanned user content for CP already. I mean, EU recently passed a vote that extended the permission for companies to be able to scan and report user content for this purpose without it being considered a privacy violation [1] (first introduced in 2020). And I recall MS[2]/Google[3] being open about this practice way in the past.

Personally I somehow doubt that MS/Google weren't scanning private content (aka not shared) for this type of material. But can't have transparency with these behemoths.

[1] https://www.euronews.com/2021/07/07/eu-adopts-temporary-rule...

[2] https://www.theverge.com/2014/8/7/5977827/microsoft-tips-off...

[3] https://www.theverge.com/2014/8/5/5970141/how-google-scans-y...

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#226

Post by SXX »

It's funny to see anyone here could find this acceptable. I wonder what's comments would be after Apple start to scan phones for anti-censorship or anti-CCP materials in China. Or for some gay porn in Saudi Arabia.

Because you know in some countries there are materials that local government find more offensive than mere child abuse. And once surveillance tech is deployed it's certainly gonna be used to oppress people.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#227

Post by neolog »

ChrisKnott wrote: post #161
switch007 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's interesting how many users in this thread are instinctively siding with the offenders in this, and not the victims. That is infantile. Painting people advocating privacy as siding with offenders is highly insulting.

This is a situation where different people's privacy is in conflict. What's infantile is claiming sole ownership of privacy advocacy while so-whating the worst privacy violation imaginable, from the victims' perspective.

That's an interesting point. However, I'm not sure victim privacy is the reason for CSAM regulations. Rather, it's reducing the creation of CSAM by discouraging its exchange. For example, suppose instead of deleting/reporting the images, Apple would detect and modify the images with Deepfake so the victim is no longer identifiable. That would protect the victim's privacy but wouldn't reduce the creation or exchange. The fact that such a proposal is ridiculous suggests that privacy isn't the reason for regulation and that reducing creation and exchange is.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#228

Post by Closi »

laumars wrote: post #222
disiplus wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

now im afraid, i have two young children < 5 years old. i have occasionally took pictures of them naked with some bumps on the skin or mosquito bite and sent them to my wife over whatsapp to look at and decide do we need to send them to doctor, do i have to fear now that i will be marked as distributing CP.

It’s not just you. I have pictures of my kids playing in the bath. No genitals are in shot and it’s just kids innocently playing with bubbles. The photos aren’t even shared but they’d still get scanned by this tool. This kind of thing isn’t even unusual either. I know my parents have pictures of myself and my siblings playing in the bath (obviously taken on film rather than digital photography) and I know friends hav…

> While the difference between innocent images and something explicit easy for a human to identify, I’m not sure I’d trust AI to understand that nuance.

In this case it’s not AI that’s understanding the nuance, it’s authorities that identify the exact pictures they want to track and then this tool lets them identify what phones/accounts have that photo (or presumably took it). If ‘AI’ is used here it is to detect if one photo contains all/part of another photo, rather than to determine if the photo is abusive or not.

Although there is a legitimate slippery slope argument to be had here.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#229

Post by choeger »

no_time wrote: post #218
choeger wrote: post #165

Sorry to say that, but stuff like this has to happen at some point when people don't own their devices. Currently, nearly no one owns their phone and at least EU legislation is underway to ensure that it stays this way. The next step will be to reduce popular services (public administration, banking, medicine) to access through such controlled devices. Then we are locked in. And you know what? Most people deserve to…

>EU legislation is underway to ensure that it stays this way. which one?

Devices with radio capabilities (i.e., all mobile devices) must be designed to prevent executing "unauthorized" software.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#230

Post by kota2 »

If you have not already, please check out the wonderful alternatives to iOS/Android that do not trample over your privacy, see https://grapheneos.org or Debian for mobile (which is still very much a WIP).

It is simply unacceptable for a company or government to scan your property that you not allow.

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