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Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

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Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#181

Post by chobytes »

ChrisKnott wrote: post #140
secondo wrote: post #53

It's quite easy to extrapolate this and in a few steps end up in a boring dystopia. First it's iPhone photos, then it's all iCloud files, that spills into Macs using iCloud, then it's client side reporting of local Mac files, and somewhere along all other Apple hardware I've filled my home with have received equivalent updates and are phoning home to verify that I don't have files or whatever data they can see or hea…

> "What is the utopian perspective of this which counterbalances the risks for this to be a path worth taking?" Basically victims of rape don't want imagery of their rape freely distributed as pornography. They consider that a violation of their rights. It's interesting how many users in this thread are instinctively siding with the offenders in this, and not the victims. Presumably because they made it through their…

Presumptuous. I certainly dont want this pseudo-righteous power grab done for me.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#182

Post by sharken »

hulitu wrote: post #120
nostromo wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need for hypotheticals, 2020 was a huge win for the police state. The UK and Israel allowed cops to monitor cell phone locations to crack down on unlawful gatherings in private homes. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/17/israel-to-trac... The problem with allowing this is that you’re paving the way for future tyrants to use it against us.

> The problem with allowing this is that you’re paving the way for future tyrants to use it against us. It's funny how everybody talk about the future. This is happenning now. Remember how a certain german guy took the power some 90 years ago ? He was elected.

I trust we live in a different world today, but it is concerning to read about mandated vaccines to get a job and mandated contact-tracing in countries such as Germany.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#183

Post by SrslyJosh »

This will go great with zero-click iMessage exploits like this one: https://9to5mac.com/2021/07/19/zero-click-imessage-exploit/

Edit: Actually, this won't even require an exploit if they also scan media for people who have enabled "iMessage in iCloud".

Just send someone an image in the DB (or an image that's been engineered to generate a false positive) and wait for them to get raided.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#184

Post by katbyte »

stevekemp wrote: post #111
wbl wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you say more about these legal photos? That's a pretty big difference from what I thought was contained in the DB.

I would imagine it would include things like Nirvana's Nevermind album-cover, or a better example Scorpion's album cover for Virgin Killer.

Til - and both findable via a google imagine search

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#185

Post by SrslyJosh »

0xy wrote: post #59
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #3

So if I understand correctly, they want to scan all your photos, stored on your private phone, that you paid for, and they want to check if any of the hashes are the same as hashes of child porn? So... all your hashes will be uploaded to the cloud? How do you prevent them from scanning other stuff (memes, leaked documents, trump-fights-cnn-gif,... to profile the users)? Or will a huge hash database of child porn hash…

That's the stated purpose, but keep in mind that these databases (NCMEC's in particular, which is used by FB and very likely Apple) contain legal images that are NOT child porn.

Source for that info?

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#186

Post by quenix »

sergiomattei wrote: post #89
secondo wrote: post #53

It's quite easy to extrapolate this and in a few steps end up in a boring dystopia. First it's iPhone photos, then it's all iCloud files, that spills into Macs using iCloud, then it's client side reporting of local Mac files, and somewhere along all other Apple hardware I've filled my home with have received equivalent updates and are phoning home to verify that I don't have files or whatever data they can see or hea…

I mean, Apple isn't too far from the Mac thing you mention. Since Catalina running an executable on macOS phones home and checks for valid signatures on their servers.

No, this is entirely different.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#188

Post by furi »

ChrisKnott wrote: post #178
furi wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel it's a little disingenuous to describe millions of innocent people being surveilled as "the offenders" because there are a handful of actual offenders among them.

I didn't do that...? There's a small number of victims, a small number of offenders (but much more than "a handful"), and hundreds of millions of other users. This change is in the direct interest of victims, direct opposition to offenders. Most normal people probably support the measures in solidarity with group 1, HN generally doesn't.

...And direct opposition to those hundreds of millions of other users. Trying to fit this to a victims vs. offenders model is a deliberate attempt to turn those hundreds of millions of other users into uninvolved bystanders. They have been pushed out by the lack of space in the model for them and their right to not have their door kicked down based on the results of an algorithm and database they can't audit, which are susceptible to targeted adversarial attacks and authoritarian interference respectively.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#189

Post by DavideNL »

This is just horrible… the people who actually abuse children and download such photos will now stop using Apple devices, and now the rest of us is vulnerable to misuse/abuse/corruption.

Instead of specifically targeting suspects, everyone is surveyed by default. Welcome to a world of mass surveillance.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#190

Post by bruce343434 »

choeger wrote: post #165

Sorry to say that, but stuff like this has to happen at some point when people don't own their devices. Currently, nearly no one owns their phone and at least EU legislation is underway to ensure that it stays this way. The next step will be to reduce popular services (public administration, banking, medicine) to access through such controlled devices. Then we are locked in. And you know what? Most people deserve to…

Yeah but I don’t and I don’t like being collateral damage.
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