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Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

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Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#111

Post by stevekemp »

wbl wrote: post #60
0xy wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NCMEC database that Apple is likely using to match hashes, contains countless non-CSAM pictures that are entirely legal not only in the U.S. but globally. This should be reason enough for you to not support the idea. From day 1, it's matching legal images and phoning home about them. Increasing the scope of scanning is barely a slippery slope, they're already beyond the stated scope of the database.

Could you say more about these legal photos? That's a pretty big difference from what I thought was contained in the DB.

I would imagine it would include things like Nirvana's Nevermind album-cover, or a better example Scorpion's album cover for Virgin Killer.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#112

Post by SilverRed »

zepto wrote: post #99
13of40 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False positives, what if someone can poison the set of hashes, engineered collisions, etc. And what happens when you come up positive - does the local sheriff just get a warrant and SWAT you at that point? Is the detection of a hash prosecutable? Is it enough to get your teeth kicked in, or get you informally labeled a pedo by your local police? On the flip side, since it's running on the client, could actual pedophi…

False positives are clearly astronomically unlikely. Not a real issue. Engineered collisions seem unlikely too. Not impossible. Unless there is a straight up cryptographic defect in the hash algorithm, it seems hard to see how engineered collisions could be made to happen at any scale.

At Apple scale, a once in a million issue is going to ruin the lives of 2000 people. A false positive here is not a mild inconvenience. It means police raiding their house, potentially damaging it, seizing all of their technology for months while it is analyzed, and leaving these people highly stressed while they try to put their lives back together.

This isn't some web tech startup where a mistake means someones tshirt got sent to the wrong address. Peoples lives will quite literally be ruined over mistakes here.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#113

Post by SilverRed »

sebyx07 wrote: post #75

4 good reasons why you should buy a iphone - (Check) fragile - (Check) best monopoly app store - (Check) high price - (Check) phones the police in case of a sha collision

I seriously doubt Google is going to have a different opinion on this. They already scan google drive content for mere copyright violations.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#114

Post by lenkite »

This is terrifying. The possibilities of extraordinary abuse are endless. What's surprising to me is the complete lack of media focus on this topic ? Why isn't this being hotly debated on TV ? Scanning people's photos is just OK now ?

Back to an Android phone, once I confirm this story is true.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#116

Post by whoknowswhat11 »

akersten wrote: post #100

If you like this, I have some other innovations that you may be interested in: * A car that automatically pulls over when a police cruiser attempts to intercept you * A front door that unlocks when a cop knocks * A camera that uses AI to detect and prevent the photography of minors, police, and critical infrastructure * A Smart TV that counts the number of people in your living room to ensure you aren't performing an…

A lot of folks here need to go into a city.

People WILL be a fan of all of this if the alternative is lots of robbery / car theft etc etc.

We see this globally. If the state is not offering security now - they will accept incredible craziness for security.

One note - in most cases folks trust Apple MORE than they would for example the Trump administration. Food for thought.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#117

Post by tibbon »

ddtaylor wrote: post #108
akersten wrote: post #100

If you like this, I have some other innovations that you may be interested in: * A car that automatically pulls over when a police cruiser attempts to intercept you * A front door that unlocks when a cop knocks * A camera that uses AI to detect and prevent the photography of minors, police, and critical infrastructure * A Smart TV that counts the number of people in your living room to ensure you aren't performing an…

I'm okay with all of those things. Keep everyone protected and safe.

That is a really esoteric flavor of boot you seem to be enjoying to lick there…

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#118

Post by rinron »

This matches up with how I view Apples corporate thinking. "we know what's best" "the consumer is not to be trusted". Apple limits access to hardware, system settings, they block apps that don't meet moral standards, are "unsafe", or just might cause apple to not make as much money. They do not significantly care what people say they want after all they know best.

A lot of people love not having options and having these decisions made for them.

I would never want a device like that or with something that scans my device, but I think the vast majority of their customers if they even hear about it will think "I trust apple, they know what's best, it wont affect me"

Im ok with apple doing it because i think most apple users will be ok with it. I would not be ok with it if all Android devices started doing it though.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#119

Post by [deleted] »

lynndotpy wrote: post #85
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #3

So if I understand correctly, they want to scan all your photos, stored on your private phone, that you paid for, and they want to check if any of the hashes are the same as hashes of child porn? So... all your hashes will be uploaded to the cloud? How do you prevent them from scanning other stuff (memes, leaked documents, trump-fights-cnn-gif,... to profile the users)? Or will a huge hash database of child porn hash…

No need to upload every hash or download a huge database with very hash. If I were building this system, I'd make a bloom-filter of hashes. This means O(1) space and time checking of a hash match, with a risk of false positives. I'd only send hashes to check against a full database.

[deleted]

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#120

Post by hulitu »

nostromo wrote: post #107
akersten wrote: post #100

If you like this, I have some other innovations that you may be interested in: * A car that automatically pulls over when a police cruiser attempts to intercept you * A front door that unlocks when a cop knocks * A camera that uses AI to detect and prevent the photography of minors, police, and critical infrastructure * A Smart TV that counts the number of people in your living room to ensure you aren't performing an…

No need for hypotheticals, 2020 was a huge win for the police state. The UK and Israel allowed cops to monitor cell phone locations to crack down on unlawful gatherings in private homes. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/17/israel-to-trac... The problem with allowing this is that you’re paving the way for future tyrants to use it against us.

> The problem with allowing this is that you’re paving the way for future tyrants to use it against us.

It's funny how everybody talk about the future. This is happenning now. Remember how a certain german guy took the power some 90 years ago ? He was elected.

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