Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#131

Post by ChrisKnott » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 5:51 AM UTC

MikeUt wrote: post #86

3pt14159 wrote: post #47

I'm really conflicted about this. For context, I deeply hate the abuse of children and I've worked on a contract before that landed 12 human traffickers in custody that were smuggling sex slaves across boarders. I didn't need to know details about the victims in question, but it's understood that they're often teenagers or children. So my initial reaction when reading this Twitter thread was "let's get these bastards…

> Unshared data shouldn't be subject to search. Once it's shared, I can make several cases for an automated scan, but a cloud backup of personal media should be kept private. Our control of our own privacy matters. Not for the slippery slope argument or for the false positive argument, but for its own sake. We shouldn't be assuming the worst of people without cause or warrant. I have a much simpler rule: Your device…

I don't think this rule makes any sense, because it just abstracts all the argument into the word "betray".

The vast majority of iPhone users won't consider it a betrayal that they can't send images of child abuse, any more than they consider it a betrayal that it doesn't come jailbroken.

The victims of child abuse depicted in these images may well have considered it a betrayal by Apple that they allowed their privacy to be so flagrantly violated on their devices up until now.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#132

Post by mrtksn » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 5:52 AM UTC

akersten wrote: post #100

If you like this, I have some other innovations that you may be interested in: * A car that automatically pulls over when a police cruiser attempts to intercept you * A front door that unlocks when a cop knocks * A camera that uses AI to detect and prevent the photography of minors, police, and critical infrastructure * A Smart TV that counts the number of people in your living room to ensure you aren't performing an…

All this feels like it's just matter of time.

The technology is there, now we only need the motivation. If politicians decides that they want it now, they can simply orchestrate a media campaign and have it. The next time an "outrageous" act of crime is conducted, they can make sure that it stays at the media attention and be portrayed as "If we don't act now very bed things will happen", then slide in their solution.

* Cars can automatically pull over by installing a cheap cut fuel cut switch that can be activated by short range radio. In many places people are used to add devices for toll collection anyway. People are also used to pay for regulatory inspections on their vehicles.

* For the old cars, simply connect an NFC reader that unlocks the central lock system of a car by a master key. For the new cars, simply make manufacturers add a police master key.

* Commercial drones are already stopping their users from flying over forbidden areas, simply extend that to smartphones. Smartphones have enough power and sensors to identify forbidden locations and persons. Add NFC kill switch, meaning the police can send a signal to lock down cameras.

* There were reports of Smart TVs that record all the time, simply mandate it to all manufacturers and enforce automated inspection of the recordings.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#133

Post by amarshall » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 5:53 AM UTC

0xEFF wrote: post #123

akersten wrote: post #100

If you like this, I have some other innovations that you may be interested in: * A car that automatically pulls over when a police cruiser attempts to intercept you * A front door that unlocks when a cop knocks * A camera that uses AI to detect and prevent the photography of minors, police, and critical infrastructure * A Smart TV that counts the number of people in your living room to ensure you aren't performing an…

Printers and scanners have refused to process imagines containing certain patterns of stars for decades and it seems to have worked out OK.

Could you elaborate?

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#134

Post by Teever » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 5:53 AM UTC

0xEFF wrote: post #123

akersten wrote: post #100

If you like this, I have some other innovations that you may be interested in: * A car that automatically pulls over when a police cruiser attempts to intercept you * A front door that unlocks when a cop knocks * A camera that uses AI to detect and prevent the photography of minors, police, and critical infrastructure * A Smart TV that counts the number of people in your living room to ensure you aren't performing an…

Printers and scanners have refused to process imagines containing certain patterns of stars for decades and it seems to have worked out OK.

No it really hasn't worked out 'OK' because here we are now.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#135

Post by josefx » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 5:54 AM UTC

ddtaylor wrote: post #108

akersten wrote: post #100

If you like this, I have some other innovations that you may be interested in: * A car that automatically pulls over when a police cruiser attempts to intercept you * A front door that unlocks when a cop knocks * A camera that uses AI to detect and prevent the photography of minors, police, and critical infrastructure * A Smart TV that counts the number of people in your living room to ensure you aren't performing an…

I'm okay with all of those things. Keep everyone protected and safe.

How is that fourth point keeping anyone safe?

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#136

Post by KirillPanov » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 5:55 AM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #107

akersten wrote: post #100

If you like this, I have some other innovations that you may be interested in: * A car that automatically pulls over when a police cruiser attempts to intercept you * A front door that unlocks when a cop knocks * A camera that uses AI to detect and prevent the photography of minors, police, and critical infrastructure * A Smart TV that counts the number of people in your living room to ensure you aren't performing an…

No need for hypotheticals, 2020 was a huge win for the police state. The UK and Israel allowed cops to monitor cell phone locations to crack down on unlawful gatherings in private homes. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/17/israel-to-trac... The problem with allowing this is that you’re paving the way for future tyrants to use it against us.

Why does this surprise anybody?

People nowadays voluntarily carry tracking devices. This will not stop getting worse until that behavior is denormalized.

The power to be gained from abusing it is beyond irresistable. Expecting those in power to not abuse it is like expecting a heroin junkie to be a good pharmacist.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#137

Post by amarshall » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 5:57 AM UTC

whoknowswhat11 wrote: post #116

akersten wrote: post #100

If you like this, I have some other innovations that you may be interested in: * A car that automatically pulls over when a police cruiser attempts to intercept you * A front door that unlocks when a cop knocks * A camera that uses AI to detect and prevent the photography of minors, police, and critical infrastructure * A Smart TV that counts the number of people in your living room to ensure you aren't performing an…

A lot of folks here need to go into a city. People WILL be a fan of all of this if the alternative is lots of robbery / car theft etc etc. We see this globally. If the state is not offering security now - they will accept incredible craziness for security. One note - in most cases folks trust Apple MORE than they would for example the Trump administration. Food for thought.

I live in a major city and I’m a fan of none of these things. I’m only one data point, but yours is a sweeping and inaccurate generalization that “cities are frighteningly unsafe”.

Maybe one trusts Apple more than , but they cannot so easily elect away Apple.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#138

Post by endgame » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 5:57 AM UTC

SilverRed wrote: post #105

Santosh83 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is the utopian perspective of this which counterbalances the risks for this to be a path worth taking? Apple takes care of everything for you, and they have your best interests at heart. You will be safe, secure, private and seamlessly integrated with your beautiful devices, so you can more efficiently consume. What's not to like about a world where child crime, terrorism, abuse, radical/harmful content and mi…

No one here has a problem with the worst criminals being taken out. The problem is the scope creep that always comes after. In 2021 and 2020 we saw people being arrested for planning/promoting anti lockdown protests. Not for actually participating but for simply posting about it. The scope of what "harmful content" is is infinite. You might agree that police do need to take action against these people but surely you…

We also saw the police query "check-in" databases which were pitched to the public as "for contact-tracing purposes only". Scope creep is inevitable.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#139

Post by sdan » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 5:57 AM UTC

amarshall wrote: post #133

0xEFF wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Printers and scanners have refused to process imagines containing certain patterns of stars for decades and it seems to have worked out OK.

Could you elaborate?

Printers recognize patters of stars on currency notes and will not print them and sometimes even notify the police.

Re: Apple enabling client-side CSAM scanning on iPhone tomorrow

#140

Post by ChrisKnott » Thu, Aug 05, 2021, 5:58 AM UTC

secondo wrote: post #53

It's quite easy to extrapolate this and in a few steps end up in a boring dystopia. First it's iPhone photos, then it's all iCloud files, that spills into Macs using iCloud, then it's client side reporting of local Mac files, and somewhere along all other Apple hardware I've filled my home with have received equivalent updates and are phoning home to verify that I don't have files or whatever data they can see or hea…

> "What is the utopian perspective of this which counterbalances the risks for this to be a path worth taking?"

Basically victims of rape don't want imagery of their rape freely distributed as pornography. They consider that a violation of their rights.

It's interesting how many users in this thread are instinctively siding with the offenders in this, and not the victims. Presumably because they made it through their own childhoods without having imagery of their own abuse shared online.