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NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

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Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#781

Post by michannne »

sprafa wrote: post #94

By not getting vaccinated you are pushing the onus of responsibility to society. When you occupy a bed in a hospital for a preventable disease (like covid post-vaccine) you are a detriment to society. You are occupying precious resources because you were dumb. Just dumb. No ifs or buts - we need to start calling out stupidity again. We already handle people occupying hospital resources with self inflicted diseases, l…

You are looking at things from the perspective of being vaccinated. Yeah you are fine because you got vaccinated. But because you are vaccinated, you now pose a risk to all unvaccinated people because you now have a non-zero chance of transmitting.

In other words, by getting vaccinated you pushed the onus of responsibility onto society.

See how this is a zero-sum game? Either everyone gets vaccinated, and maintains that vaccination forever, or someone is still getting the short end of the stick, and society as a whole loses.

I'm sure you personally feel great for getting a vaccination, but that means literally nothing in the grand scheme of things. But clearly getting everyone vaccinated isn't the focus here, not with this post nor this law. The focus is clearly to feel good about yourself if you are vaccinated and look down upon those who aren't. So I'd say keep ngaf, because as long as lawmakers share opinions like those of yourself, this issue isn't going anywhere.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#782

Post by beaner »

XorNot wrote: post #774
timr wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am pro-vaccine (and fully vaccinated), but I don't support this policy at all. I don't believe this will have much of a net effect on vaccination rate, I believe it will disproportionately negatively impact poor and minority populations in NYC who already have a bad/mistrustful relationship with health care and government, and it is obviously a huge new governmental intrusion into our daily lives. It might well lea…

> I believe it will disproportionately negatively impact poor and minority populations Those populations are perfectly capable of speaking for themselves, and don't need you to do it for them. You have an opinion, don't dress it up in someone else's situation. The current leading population for vaccination rate in Alabama is the band of majority black districts (and subsequently case numbers have gone down and down a…

Great, let's just be consistent and take this perspective when it comes to voter ID laws, too.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#783

Post by mdorazio »

barbazoo wrote: post #603
thehappypm wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've had COVID you are more likely to have an adverse reaction to the vaccine, it's just how the immune system reactions. If I knew I'd have 2 bad sick days to take 2 doses of a vaccine that I have already beaten.. meh.

> If you've had COVID you are more likely to have an adverse reaction to the vaccine, it's just how the immune system reactions Can you point to anything that backs up that claim?

Here you go: https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/vaccine-after-effects-more-co...

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#784

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan »

tracedddd wrote: post #57
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

We shouldn’t applaud the normalization of health status checks outside a border crossing. The world has a nasty trend of using crises to erode privacy and we collectively never recover - what was sold as temporary becomes permanent, endlessly extended and expanded. I’m not an antivaxer. The vaccine works and I believe it’s really safe. I’m vaccinated. Nearly anyone who is capable to go to a bar can easily go get vacc…

> We shouldn’t applaud the normalization of health status checks outside a border crossing.

We shouldn’t applaud the normalization of health status checks outside of a global pandemic.

People see this as a way to go back to the movies again without having to feel guilty about potentially killing someone's grandma. This is an alternative to going back into lockdown.

I'm genuinely curious: what are your privacy concerns here?

I like to think I'm a privacy-minded person, and I can't imagine how the benefits of this policy (keeping things open, preventing hospitalizations, saving lives) wouldn't possibly outweigh the cons (having to bring a vaccine card to a concert).

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#785

Post by nobody9999 »

eschulz wrote: post #510
mthoms wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your rights end when exercising them endangers my life and the lives of my family. That’s also a basic tenet of civil society (see traffic laws for example).

Traffic permit and licensing laws meet a high standard for which there is significant legal precedent. Your statement does not have a legal basis in the US or under Common Law. While we have had health tests to ender the country, we have not had them to go to a public place. We have never required the flu shot to got to a bar or nightclub. I too am not antivax, but I don't think you have the right to require those ar…

>but I don't think you have the right to require those around you in public places to take a new vaccine that has not even undergone the normal rigors of FDA approval.

Under the NYC "mandate", No one is required to be vaccinated. I'll say that again: no one is being required to be vaccinated.

While I disagree with the DeBlasio administration's new policy (WRT bars, gyms, etc.), both because it will be almost impossible to enforce and because the benefits (via increased vaccinations) will likely be marginal at best, no one is forcing anyone to do anything.

I'd much prefer (as an increasing number of restaurants, theaters and other venues and businesses are doing) that requiring patrons and staff to be vaccinated be a decision taken by the specific business involved.

Those businesses that only allow vaccinated people in their establishments will gain some folks and lose others -- and vice versa.

Regardless, and I'll say it one more time: the "mandate" from the NYC government doesn't force anyone to get vaccinated, nor does it restrict anyone from public spaces.

NYers aren't stupid (or at least not in any greater amount than anywhere else) and most will (and have) take appropriate precautions.

That said, the new requirements won't be all that effective because they're essentially unenforceable unless the business' owners are fully on board -- if they are, then they'll (as many have already done) require their staff and patrons to be vaccinated.

If a business' owners aren't on board with this, they won't require it, whether it's mandated or not.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#786

Post by claytongulick »

wwweston wrote: post #709
timr wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we should have. Tolerating disease spread and threats to vulnerable populations when vaccines are available that are practically risk-free (or the risk being magnitudes smaller than the payoff) is ridiculous. Maybe this finally shakes people awake and puts public health and safety to the top of the agenda rather than people throwing tantrums like children about government incursion. You can certainly go down this p…

> an overall risk of illness and death that is on par with every other year I have been alive. The excess death statistics would like to have a word with you, but more importantly: > If I ever become so afraid of death that I demand that other people give up their basic human rights Are basic human rights really what we're talking about here? If so, they've always had limits when it came to impacts on others. The fre…

It depends on whether you consider liberty, self ownership and free contracts between consenting adults to be basic human rights.

Eroding liberty by restricting free association would have certainly been considered a violation of rights by the folks that listed them in the Constitution.

In fact, they put it first.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#787

Post by velhartice »

Possibly dumb question, what about the people who have been told by their doctor to NOT get a covid vaccine because of specific pre-existing conditions or medical history?

My neighbor has been told by his doctor to not get any vaccine because of his medical history. Are those people just SOL, or am I missing something?

THX

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#788

Post by prepend »

maxerickson wrote: post #778
timr wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we should have. Tolerating disease spread and threats to vulnerable populations when vaccines are available that are practically risk-free (or the risk being magnitudes smaller than the payoff) is ridiculous. Maybe this finally shakes people awake and puts public health and safety to the top of the agenda rather than people throwing tantrums like children about government incursion. You can certainly go down this p…

You don't have a basic human right to go into buildings that other people own.

You do if they are open to the public. We once lived in a country where people were banned from entering buildings based on the color of their skin.

If I run a private public space I shouldn’t (and can’t) discriminate arbitrarily on who can enter.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#789

Post by rodgerd »

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

It's a collection of sophistry from Typhoid Marys.

And yes, she was a real person. Those who ignore the humanities are doomed to repeat humanity's worst mistakes.

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