another red flag of an impending crash?
How so?
Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble
271–280 of 296 posts
Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
The proof is in the pudding, very rarely do people with STEM degrees have to vouch for the usefulness of their degree. We already know why mechanics, engineers and statisticians are useful as career fields, it's the Create Haiku majors that always seem to have to explain the "value unseen" in their degree.
Note, though, that in most threads on HN about qualifications for programming or software engineering there are usually quite a few comments from people saying that they never actually use anything from the classes they had to take to earn their STEM degree. As far as actually teaching them things they would use on the job the STEM degree was no better than any random humanities degree. The only value they say they g…
My uni had an entire course devoted to data structures (from b-trees, to relational db) so I beg to differ. Anecdotal (much as your comments are as well) but I've often employed the knowledge i gained in my classes as a CS major in subsequent engineering jobs. In the course of my jobs I've used everything from genetic algorithms to least squares regression, and everything in between.
And yes, there is a good reason that it's more valuable, particularly for a recent grad. It shows that a prospective job candidate has already put forth some effort in the field (from working on class projects, to exams, to working with other students on larger programs)
Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble
#273Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't see how high 5 figures is not high salary. 100k is literally double the average salary for the US, and 3 times the median wage. And a lot of people earning the median are also deep in student debt. If earning 3 times the median is not good money, maybe your view of what "good money" means something else. The lawyer median wage is 125k, and the 75 percentile is 186k. I consider 186k to be a high wage, it's 6 t…
Lumping your comparison to include people without high school degrees with lawyers is making a huge mistake. At a minimum the comparison should be between collage graduates and lawyers minus the opportunity cost of law school. Consider, when comparing starting salary your accountant or whatever not only makes money in both years a lawyer is in law school they also likely have two raises before the lawyer gets his fir…
Also factor in cost of living and rent. That ~$72k is not going to fly in SF or NY after rent if you are trying to start a family and not have 3 roommates.
Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure, I did not study law, but I think I have a way easier time decoding laws and contracts, than my liberal arts peers.
Being mathematically inclined and having worked in software for a decade+ I'm also very good at understanding the complex laws and nuances for international travel in the age of COVID. I'm about to visit 3 countries and from my own research I feel like I'm the world's expert on the congressional bills and executive orders of these countries now (I'm only somewhat kidding) By the way, I'm a liberal arts graduate (but…
"I'm a liberal arts graduate (but majoring in math and comp sci and minoring in music)" ... if you're majoring in math... you're not a liberal arts grad.
I personally minored in music composition (with a masters in CS) but I wouldn't describe myself as a liberal arts grad.
Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble
#275Earlier quoted context omitted.
Law is a well paying profession in general, insofar as many can make high five figures and low six figures. That’s good money for real life. You’re correct that only a relatively few people make the kind of money people think lawyers make, and the profession is highly segregated by education. Most people at my law school (northwestern) went on to a big firm job with a salary of $200k rising to $500k after 8 years. A…
>I will quibble with your first point a bit. Law is a profession that attracts large numbers of people who default into it because they can’t think of what to do with their liberal arts undergraduate degree. It’s a demanding, detail oriented, analytical job, and many of those people become quite disillusioned with it. Underrated comment -- literally half of all lawyers I've worked with (financial regulation) admit th…
yes and most "failed" lawyers i know didn't even finish law school or just did a year of it.
it evidently wasn't for them and they usually had or were inclined to do an arts degree anyway.
Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well-paid/experienced partners, yes. Starting salary for partners is around 300k at a big four. That's true for FAANG starting salaries, too. The only difference is it takes 15 years to make partner at a big four, whereas (especially with college-age side hustle experience) you can start with a few years of experience. Oh, the other difference is you can spend a few hundred thousand to buy-in as a partner, as opposed…
Starting for partners is $300k at a big four but that does not include equity grants or profit sharing. It also rapidly climbs from $300k, especially if you can make it past the first 3 years. A senior partner with 10+ years as a partner can pull down $20M+ a year easily and would be a candidate for C-suite jobs basically anywhere if they decided to leave. But making it into the partnership is more about playing poli…
How do these firms make so much money to pay these eye popping amounts?!
Are these the firms that do lawsuits against companies on behalf of a wronged client, client gets peanuts and “lawyer” fees eat up the sizable chunk of amount awarded in $xx,000,000+ cases?
Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
For perspective: https://www.federalpay.org/military/army Army Captain. Someone with a degree and a few years in the job. Someone in command of perhaps 50 people. A federal employee. The sort of person who most Americans would consider solidly middle class. Base monthly pay = $6,023
There is a contingent in tech (and probably other areas like Wall Street) that is absolutely delusional about what most people consider comfortable middle class--or even upper middle class--salaries.
It's either regional differences where people pretend that the exception is the rule [0] or rich people pretend to be "middle class" because that way the middle class will vote for the benefits of rich people.
[0] I can't afford a $2 million house, therefore I am not middle class if don't earn at least $200k.
Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble
#278Earlier quoted context omitted.
The proof is in the pudding, very rarely do people with STEM degrees have to vouch for the usefulness of their degree. We already know why mechanics, engineers and statisticians are useful as career fields, it's the Create Haiku majors that always seem to have to explain the "value unseen" in their degree.
Yes. Because STEM degrees have perceived economic value and liberal arts degrees don't. That does not mean liberal arts degrees are useless. It is, at the very least, short-sighted to think so. I majored in comp sci but I'm not gonna sit around and pretend every aspect of culture and humanity can be solved by my engineering work...
The problem is that people take on debt. With debt you also get the financial shackles to get something out of your degree. You can argue that the liberal art degrees provide useful education but I don't think they are worth the price they charge.
The idea that you intentionally pay huge sums for something whose value shouldn't depend on how much it costs is ridiculous and only acceptable if paying those huge sums will also help you pay them back.
Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
I met a lawyer in a yoga studio changeroom once. I own a corner lot around the corner from the studio, and we were going through a really rough winter in Canada. So much so that I was worried about somebody slipping on my sidewalk, even though I was doing my best to keep it safely walkable. (It was so cold out, and we were getting pelted with so much snow for days that the salt was literally not melting anything.) Af…
> What a drag to think of treating your fellow man like that all the time. You asked him to think about it. Slipping and falling could cause a life-changing injury that no amount of money can undo, so I’m glad he knew how to advocate for his clients.
And this is why I hate law and politics. Rather than about learning and prevention of accidents it's about how much revenge you can get out of the intentionally vague text called law.
Just think about it. According to your logic the world would be better if 5 people slip on the sidewalk and the owner of the sidewalk burns in hell.
Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
I always wondered if studying law, also prepares your mind for coding. Lots of complex preconditions, trying to find clauses that catch all side effects - sounds familiar to me. So transitioning from law to coding is maybe "just" learning some programming language and technical details, but the mind is already somewhat prepared to the thinking?
You might say playing Minesweeper prepares you for law. Or vice versa. Or coding prepares you for law. It’s omnidirectional.
I'm sure it does, but which subset and is it big enough to be relevant?