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Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

reuters.com

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Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#261

Post by dang »

runbathtime wrote: post #258
dang wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop posting ideological flamewar comments to HN or we'll have to ban you. It's not what this site is for, regardless of which ideological flavor you favor. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Ok, it would be nice if you banned the comments from the other side of the ideological spectrum, to be consistent.

We do that all the time. Everybody thinks the site and the mods are biased against their team. It's a natural reflex, but a cognitive bias and quite inaccurate.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26148870

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#262

Post by dalbasal »

Gene_Parmesan wrote: post #245
dalbasal wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting thread. GP's point and your own are not necessarily at odds. A lot has to do with which real lawyer is used as representative. Are we looking at average experience, median, 76th percentile... Taking into account those who never started practicing, etc. The same can be said of other professions, but the details vary a lot. Relative merits depend on where we put the probe. A well to do lawyer, 40+ lawyer ca…

The sort of well-to-do 40+ lawyer you describe is really only something found at "biglaw" firms, and not only that, but people at biglaw firms who have managed to make partner. Getting hired into biglaw is like getting hired into big tech from CS school, but less predictable because it's almost universally based on law school rank after your first year. And law school rank is almost universally dependent upon exam gr…

So... that path exists in tech too. As you say, a "big tech from CS school" trailhead. Politics, and tech versions of rainmaking play a role sorting into senior positions from there too.

Up to this point, a tech career has a lot more options and opportunities. Didn't get google? Work at a bank, a startup, a salesforce solutions techshop.... Didn't get MIT? There are other paths forward, including quirky ones that will work too.

Past this point, well-to-do lawyer at Biglaw has the cushier path. Law firms respect seniority. They give them nice offices, autonomy. Senior partners don't worry about wippersnappers running circles around them in some new law paradigm. They don't need to relearn contract law periodically.

The point about happiness is valid, but complex. That competitive prestige game is, empirically, often misery making. Programming has more realness, but there can be a lot of performance stress, especially if you're thinking in decades.

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#263

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #150
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the pandemic has taught us anything it is that even though we are able to recognize how essential a lot of jobs are, we will still refuse to respect or properly compensate the people who work them. Maybe for some types of frontline workers, but certainly not for skilled tradesman, who are making bank right now and have for at least the past 20 years since I've lived in my current city. And in terms of "refuse to…

Ask yourself this though: why aren't people going to trade schools more often? If it's such a high demand career, with such reasonable pay, then surely it should attract talent; especially when one considers the extreme affordability of trade school in comparison to university education. But we don't see this, why? I posit that it is because people who work trades are looked down on socially. People point at the mech…

The main reason is just because it's hard. For all the talk you see on HN about boring office jobs, the physicality of a job like plumbing can really put a ton of wear and tear on your body by the time you're in your 50s.

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#264

Post by 908B64B197 »

dalbasal wrote: post #113
rayiner wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Law is a well paying profession in general, insofar as many can make high five figures and low six figures. That’s good money for real life. You’re correct that only a relatively few people make the kind of money people think lawyers make, and the profession is highly segregated by education. Most people at my law school (northwestern) went on to a big firm job with a salary of $200k rising to $500k after 8 years. A…

Interesting thread. GP's point and your own are not necessarily at odds. A lot has to do with which real lawyer is used as representative. Are we looking at average experience, median, 76th percentile... Taking into account those who never started practicing, etc. The same can be said of other professions, but the details vary a lot. Relative merits depend on where we put the probe. A well to do lawyer, 40+ lawyer ca…

> Tech careers "naturally" progress into management, whereas lawyerly one progress into seniority. Competitive, yet prestige based career starts.

> The 44 year old senior programmer probably has a less cushy path forward

If he's still a "senior programmer" at 44 and not Staff level engineer, it's indeed a rough path ahead.

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#265

Post by 908B64B197 »

bississippi wrote: post #24
jl2718 wrote: post #8

Summary: entry-level jobs dried up, so people are going to law school instead. Also political motivations. Editorial: More lawyers make the country more complicated and less competitive. We need more and better people going into industrial and medical skilled trades. Think CAD/CAM, not plumber. On the other hand, I think basic legal education would probably have been more relevant than almost anything I’ve ever learn…

Where I live plumbers make more than an average software engineer. Owner operator plumbers make close to half a million a year. And don’t get me started on Plumbers operating a min of 5 trucks they make atleast a million and half. I know this because my brother law is a plumber.

> Where I live plumbers make more than an average software engineer

But the plumbers all use Google and have iPhones... But they aren't getting any stock from the companies making these as part of their comp package.

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#266

Post by lizknope »

sandworm101 wrote: post #222
xphilter wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With respect, this comment is wrong in so many places. “High five figures” is not a lot of money considering the opportunity cost (and actual cost of a law degree) (7 years and likely $200,000 all in). The 1 in 4 figure is not close to right either—it’s typically fewer than 1 in 10 get the actually high paying jobs outside of t-14 schools. And I’m glad commenter likes the grind, but most lawyers that I’ve worked with…

For perspective: https://www.federalpay.org/military/army Army Captain. Someone with a degree and a few years in the job. Someone in command of perhaps 50 people. A federal employee. The sort of person who most Americans would consider solidly middle class. Base monthly pay = $6,023

Doesn't the army give housing and food allowances? Do you even pay anything if you live and eat on base?

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#267

Post by dogman144 »

cblconfederate wrote: post #179
reader_mode wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money isn't everything, there's a status component related to those professions (especially if you are coming from poorer background) and a lot of people like the idea of being a doctor or a lawyer. TBH you have to be a certain kind of person to enjoy sitting in front of a screen 8H a day to work on stuff most people would find meaningless (eg. getting paid to optimize ad revenue, speed up PHP execution to save data…

and that perception of status is largely dictated by the mass media and movie businesses. Portraying a job as high-status makes it high-status in the eye of the audience, that's why it's generally accepted as higher status to be an actor than to be a backend developer. You 'll rarely see a show that ridicules actors but computer nerds are regularly ridiculed

Ya people worried about status always seem to be the people not in the trade.

Excluding the trades really tied to the oil industry or tough construction work… every debt-free plumber/carpenter/electrician/HVAC seems to be A-ok happy. If they have small businesses acumen, these types seem to be financial rocketships by their 30’s.

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#268

Post by dogman144 »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #118
reader_mode wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money isn't everything, there's a status component related to those professions (especially if you are coming from poorer background) and a lot of people like the idea of being a doctor or a lawyer. TBH you have to be a certain kind of person to enjoy sitting in front of a screen 8H a day to work on stuff most people would find meaningless (eg. getting paid to optimize ad revenue, speed up PHP execution to save data…

In my job, I get exposed to the owners of plumbing, construction, and other blue collar industries. From what I've seen, their houses are huge, their spouses are gorgeous, and they live in regions where they get to have an incredible quality of life. The owner of a construction company told me once that he makes a 15% profit per year, and he charges far less than the competition because he would feel slimy taking mor…

My impression as well.

Tradesmen that can run a business and aren’t in the auto mechanics space, the oil industry, or working (vs supervising) in construction seem to do so well.

Those three are caveats based on anecdotal evidence on industry trends and manual labor injury risks.

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#269

Post by thunkshift1 »

jseliger wrote: post #32
arn wrote: post #9

Apparently med school applications were up 18% (in 2020). Which surprises me, I would think COVID might have scared more people off. https://www.ama-assn.org/residents-students/preparing-medica...

I would think COVID might have scared more people off Or talking to doctors, or listening to what doctors write and say: https://jakeseliger.com/2012/10/20/why-you-should-become-a-n...

That was a sobering read

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#270

Post by thunkshift1 »

buryat wrote: post #174
gverrilla wrote: post #116

I was in law school for 2 semesters. I got a job at a top m&a and societary office, in one of the highest profile avenues in the tropical capital I lived in, as an intern. It was summer, lunchtime, and I was walking on said avenue when my boss crossed me. He stopped and all of a sudden reached for my tie knot, to check if the button behind it was correctly buttoned (is this the right word?). He proceeded to tell me I…

> Luckily I'm deeply anti-violence, because my first instinct when he touched my tie was to smash his face. this is contradictory

Lol
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