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NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

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Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#661

Post by icedistilled »

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

NPR yesterday was interviewing a guy who'd had an organ transplant and thus has to take immunosuppressant drugs. He'd been vaccinated, it was either pfizer or moderna.

His doctor tested him for antibodies, his were undetectable. He was getting a third shot in hopes it would finally give him antibodies.

By being against vaccines or against vaccine requirements, people risk the lives of those like that guy, who's already suffering and already has to be 10x as cautious.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#662

Post by tehjoker »

esyir wrote: post #604
stefan_ wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The result will be 3) everyone will be infected with a vastly more contagious, possibly more deadly variant that is resistant to vaccine. Your scenario isn't an option. It's not "over" because it has run its course in a single wave.

Looking at the history of disease, that's pretty unlikely. Traditionally, the optimal virus is going to get more contagious, but far less deadly; a disease that kills its host rapidly generally burns itself out. Now, the consequences of getting to that more optimal virus I'm a lot more hazy about.

Deadliness is only selected against once it impedes transmission. A virus that kills after transmitting (because you spread it while asymptomaticly) will only burn out once a ton of people die inhibiting transmission.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#663

Post by _ph_ »

giantg2 wrote: post #74
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

For #2, if you have a medical condition that prevents you from receiving the vaccine it would require either falsified vaccine cards to show you as complying with the mandate, or disclosure of a/the medical condition that prevents you from getting it. Effectively, this small minority is finding themselves in a position that pits their medical privacy of their underlying medical conditions against the requirement to p…

Here in Germany you get the same kind of certificate when you prove that you recovered from the disease as when you got vaccinated.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#664

Post by 908B64B197 »

giantg2 wrote: post #74
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

For #2, if you have a medical condition that prevents you from receiving the vaccine it would require either falsified vaccine cards to show you as complying with the mandate, or disclosure of a/the medical condition that prevents you from getting it. Effectively, this small minority is finding themselves in a position that pits their medical privacy of their underlying medical conditions against the requirement to p…

> This question was mostly based on an article I saw about a nurse who was fired because she didn't get the vaccine even though she had antibodies. It made me think it was mostly a move by some corporate lawyer limit liability.

That's ridiculous, but hey it's the blankfaces making/enforcing the rules! [0]

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28042392

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#665

Post by icedistilled »

timr wrote: post #129
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

I am pro-vaccine (and fully vaccinated), but I don't support this policy at all. I don't believe this will have much of a net effect on vaccination rate, I believe it will disproportionately negatively impact poor and minority populations in NYC who already have a bad/mistrustful relationship with health care and government, and it is obviously a huge new governmental intrusion into our daily lives. It might well lea…

what about immunocompromised people who don't really have a choice. Some of them get the vaccine but it gives them no anti-bodies, as if they were not vaccinated. What about them?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#666

Post by preinheimer »

isleyaardvark wrote: post #505
preinheimer wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And literally anyone who wants a vaccine can get one. Completely false. There's several groups that might want the vaccine that can't get it. Including: children and the immuno compromised. 32 kids were hospitalized in one week in Alabama last month. A state with half the population of NYC. https://www.al.com/coronavirus/2021/07/infant-among-children...

Not to mention the adults who want to but can’t take sick time in case they feel side effects.

Thank you for bringing this up!

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#667

Post by wyager »

Hippocrates wrote: post #660

So they're requiring vaccination in "many indoor settings", which just includes restaurants, movie theaters and gyms... Those are luxuries. What are people up in arms about then? Its like another take on the mask mandate outrage, where people conflated selfishness with freedom, except this time you can still do everything you need to while being non-compliant.

The government does not have carte-blanche authority to strip people of any liberty that isn’t strictly necessary for survival. The government stripping life of all its “luxuries” just looks like being in prison (except at least prisoners are allowed to go to the gym).

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#668

Post by wyager »

sprafa wrote: post #94

By not getting vaccinated you are pushing the onus of responsibility to society. When you occupy a bed in a hospital for a preventable disease (like covid post-vaccine) you are a detriment to society. You are occupying precious resources because you were dumb. Just dumb. No ifs or buts - we need to start calling out stupidity again. We already handle people occupying hospital resources with self inflicted diseases, l…

> By not getting vaccinated you are pushing the onus of responsibility to society. When you occupy a bed in a hospital for a preventable disease (like covid post-vaccine) you are a detriment to society. You are occupying precious resources because you were dumb

Why are you focusing on weak predictors of expected medical cost like vaccination status instead of strong predictors like diet and obesity?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#669

Post by _ph_ »

bingohbangoh wrote: post #395
ashtonkem wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I think a lot of people here without kids have absolutely no idea that you need to prove immunization in order to attend school. What’s funnier still to me is men (it always seems to be men) outraged that they might need to prove vaccination in order to send their kids back to school, publicly admitting that they’ve been fobbing that work off on their spouse.

People know. They know, if anything, because you need to be vaccinated to attend colleges. The issue is that this vaccine is not FDA approved. A vaccine that provides for only a year is hardly the same as a booster shot which is good for 10 iirc.

The vaccines have full approval here in the EU. Thats why we got the vaccines 2 months later than the US. It is also not clear, how long the vaccines protect. Some part of the immune response is considered to be quite long-term, only the antibody-count falls quicker. The thing is: we lack precise data here and we have an ongoing pandemic. Once the pandemic is over, it is much safer to explore how long we can set the interval for booster shots.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#670

Post by bern4444 »

kian wrote: post #379
bern4444 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaccination in NY/NYC is easily proven. Picture of your vaccine card is sufficent and there's also the excelsior pass which is a QR code. Super easy to get from a city/state website after entering a few details (think name, when your last vaccine was, which vaccine etc). This can be downloaded as an image, into apple wallet etc. For those who chose not to, they can stick to carrying around their vaccine card (just as…

In response to 'but its literally no different than having to get a vaccine to travel to certain countries', we literally (as in have a literal - written word - constitution) that explicitly prohibits the prevention of movement between the states in the same way that we do between countries. There is a quite literal, and federally-mandated, difference. You literally aren't even allowed to ask for someone's ID to cros…

No one is suggesting preventing non New Yorkers from coming into New York. We only ask they respect our laws. People are always welcome to visit unhindered.

If they want the full NY experience which includes eating at a restaurant they must follow the laws in NY. One of these is paying the NY sales tax, not the sales tax of the state from which they're visiting. They also must comply with NY's vaccine requirements to eat at a restaurant.

If they don't want to, they're welcome to come and enjoy all the other activities that don't require proof of vaccination.

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