621–630 of 1001 posts
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As I clearly mentioned, this vaccine is not FDA approved. We have no idea of the long term effects. I find it fairly reasonable to not want to be a test subject.
Do vaccines being approved by government make the government not a nanny state? Isn't that still a matter of government knowing what's good for you, as a parent would?
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Do you not show your ID at a bar? What privacy are you giving up here?
Do they scan it with a call to the cloud to verify it? That's the real threat here - continuous tracking, ability to turn it off or geo fence you to a certain area.
Do you pay cash for everything? nnever use a credit card? Don't fly?
Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…
I am pro-vaccine (and fully vaccinated), but I don't support this policy at all. I don't believe this will have much of a net effect on vaccination rate, I believe it will disproportionately negatively impact poor and minority populations in NYC who already have a bad/mistrustful relationship with health care and government, and it is obviously a huge new governmental intrusion into our daily lives. It might well lea…
To paraphrase Mr. Bonaparte, a politician loves power like a musician loves his music.
I have done all I can do. If you don't want to get vaccinated, good luck!
If you are vaccinated and that terrified just stay inside or go out in a bee-keeper outfit. Let the normal people get on with their lives already.
Of course I am downvoted in 2 seconds lol. Just glad I am old and lived a great life. Ya'll are fucked.
Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…
> Unless, of course, you think that the vaccine is more dangerous than coronavirus. And then I don't really know what to say. I'd still encourage everyone to vaccinate for pro-social reasons, but for the young and the healthy I don't think this is such a ridiculous assertion. I'm virtually 100% confident that vaccines are completely safe and effective. However for a large fraction of people they will make you feel li…
These simple, individualised analyses are about the extent of what public health authorities may do when deciding on the safety or benefits of a treatment. However they exclude other advantages to being a person with a vaccine:
- maybe some of your friends are being very cautious about the virus (for rational or irrational reasons) and being your vaccinated means more meaningful interactions with them
- maybe your employer lets vaccinated people return to the office (and you want to return). Or maybe there are other things that require vaccines (when I went up to university I had to confirm that I’d had a bunch of vaccines, for example)
- maybe you want to be altruistic and reduce the risk you cause to other people
- better ability to travel internationally
- if everyone does it then there is less of an ability for further mutations to develop
I mostly understand why health authorities are limited, and perhaps those simple statistics are the right thing to communicate to the public. But I think in our society as it is, getting the vaccine is still +ve EV for young people.
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Thank you for providing an excellent example of the fear-based reasoning surrounding "cases". I understand that you are scared, but is incorrect to imply that my opinion comes from a lack of understanding of what you're talking about. > Why is this so hard for people to understand? I understand your argument, but I disagree with you, based on a long education in this area, a deep understanding of the data, and person…
> Some do not. This one does. I am sure you believe what you are saying, and I am also not doubting that you have some education on the topic, but I have to disagree. Take for example, this study [1] demonstrating significant loss of grey matter in the brain for COVID patients, both hospitalized and non-hospitalized. As our understanding of virology evolves it is becoming more and more clear that the notion of epheme…
So natural immunity should be included then? I hear all these arguments but then people pretend like natural immunity is not a thing. Sure maybe it isn’t as effective as a vaccine (though some argue it is better), but it definitely makes you at least unlikely to spread.
I might believe this isn’t just a huge power grab and people are actually concerned with the health of individuals, if folks would acknowledge “the science” of natural immunity.
Saying it isn’t as good as vaccine means nothing, because we are only trying to eliminate more likely spreaders, not any statistical chance of spreading.
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Vaccination in NY/NYC is easily proven. Picture of your vaccine card is sufficent and there's also the excelsior pass which is a QR code. Super easy to get from a city/state website after entering a few details (think name, when your last vaccine was, which vaccine etc). This can be downloaded as an image, into apple wallet etc. For those who chose not to, they can stick to carrying around their vaccine card (just as…
>Vaccination in NY/NYC is easily proven. Picture of your vaccine card is sufficent That’s easily faked. To prove vaccination, a picture of a card is not sufficient. If that’s all that’s required as proof then this won’t accomplish anything meaningful.
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Won’t there always be a variant popping up somewhere in some part of the world though? The idea that “if we all got vaccinated, we could have zero variants” reeks of “zero COVID” thinking
More unvaccinated people -> more people getting covid -> more chances for mutation into variants It's really that simple. We want as few active infections as possible globally so that existing vaccinations can work for the variants they were made in mind with. Otherwise we will be at the disadvantage in a perpetual arms race trying to quickly stamp out the global "fires" of new variants.
Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…
1. This is mandating that vaccine companies make more money, the incentives are suspect. We might reasonably expect people who already had COVID should have better immunity than the vaccinated since the vaccination is basically just a simulation of having COVID. Why not then be suspicious of reasoning motivated by unscrupulous profiteers? People will be getting vaccinated who don't want or need it, which raises an eyebrow. This policy is probably a fig leaf for government handouts to big pharma.
2. The evidence changes. We don't know what the 2 year effects of COVID are yet since the disease hasn't existed for 2 years. Even now week-to-week what everyone knows can change. I do not trust that the scientific basis for this decision will still be sound in 12 months - the data here is raw.
3. What about the argument that people have a right to control their own bodies? There has been a concerted push by reasonable people for that, eg, in the area of abortions. If the NYC government can demand vaccination for the greater good then it is basically the same logic as demanding carriage of babies to term for the greater good. We know a lot of people disagree with that logic.
4. You also haven't distinguished between (1) thinking that the vaccine is a bad idea and (2) thinking that governments feeling empowered to mandate the most experimental vaccines in a generation is unwise. It already appears they don't work as advertised given that having taken the vaccine doesn't acceptably improve their risk profile vs. COVID (in the NY government's opinion). Which I think it does.
5. The far more effective measure would be tight border controls to prevent even worse variants - the biggest risk here as far as I can tell has always been something like a delta variant appearing and breaking through the first generation of vaccines. But defending against that would inconvenience the people making the decisions, so it is unlikely they'll think of that. The decision makers aren't serious about stopping the virus, so their decisions made to allegedly stop the virus are suspect.
I'm pretty tired of all this. If folks want don't want to get the vaccine, under the argument of personal responsibility, let them do what they want. However, if they willingly or negligently transmit covid, they should be civilly and maybe criminally liable. If they end up needing medical care, make them pay for it out of their pocket. Make them financially responsible for their decisions.
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> if you are fully vaccinated, you are at essentially no risk of serious illness from SARS-CoV2. Terrible first order logic. The threat from the virus is not only immediate risk to the individual, it is also further transmissions increasing the risk of creating new breakthrough variants. Every infected person is a gamble that risks nullifying the effectiveness of vaccines, so the goal must be to bring down infections…
Won’t there always be a variant popping up somewhere in some part of the world though? The idea that “if we all got vaccinated, we could have zero variants” reeks of “zero COVID” thinking