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NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

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Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#561

Post by notJim »

jaywalk wrote: post #491
timr wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am pro-vaccine (and fully vaccinated), but I don't support this policy at all. I don't believe this will have much of a net effect on vaccination rate, I believe it will disproportionately negatively impact poor and minority populations in NYC who already have a bad/mistrustful relationship with health care and government, and it is obviously a huge new governmental intrusion into our daily lives. It might well lea…

> if you are fully vaccinated, you are at essentially no risk of serious illness from SARS-CoV2. This is demonstrably false if you actually look at hospital admissions.

Do you have a cite? I thought vaccination reduced hospitalization to nearly zero. Here's a link where the highest state is at .06% https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/covid-19-vaccine-breakthrou...

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#562

Post by tajutice4 »

ok123456 wrote: post #416
tajustice wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ID laws are inherently racist, and have been leveraged by white supremacists for decades to keep POC from enjoying the rights and privileges they're guaranteed under the law. Businesses requiring vaccination IDs are de facto discriminating against POCs and other minorities because POCs and minorities are less likely to have ID, and less likely to be vaccinated.

The coronavirus doesn't discriminate. Edit: Can't reply to the child since it's dead, but for the record, I got my covid vaccinations at an AME church (i.e., black) back in April. Edit 2: >Anecdotal evidence is always useful for bigotry. I went to an AME church (i.e., black) back in April and the church was denied vaccines. No you didn't. > The statistical facts are clear: POCs are much less likely to have access to…

You're trolling and denying facts.

It literally states POCs are less likely to be vaccinated (and have proof of vaccines).

Sorry, facts don't care about your feelings. Mandatory vaccine ID is racist bigotry.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#563

Post by maerF0x0 »

gr1zzlybe4r wrote: post #137

This is the point where we have to stop making trade offs of choice and liberty in the name of "security". Give the public open data about the effectiveness of the vaccine and then let people make their own decisions about what to do. The moralization and judgement about the vaccine has become ludicrous. If you're scared to do things around others even if you're vaccinated, then that's fine. We cannot accept a societ…

> If you're scared to do things around others even if you're vaccinated, then that's fine.

This has been a societal change in the making for quite some time. It used to be that if one were uncomfortable they were free to not participate, one's requirements were not an onus on others. Now people feel free to create onus on others.

Today people feel free to demand that others comply to their requirements to feel safe rather than relying on/increasing their own self protection and isolation standard.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#564

Post by dnissley »

I have many issues with this policy, and I'm both vaccinated and pro-vaccination.

1. As others have mentioned, this is being done before the vaccine being available to children under 12 and before the vaccine has been officially approved by the FDA.

2. This policy isn't simply being announced as a way to temporarily bring down cases, it's being instituted indefinitely, with no pre-determined expiration date.

3. There has been no attempt to justify the policy. And the burden of proof should be on those instituting the policy.

4. This announcement is nearly triumphant rather than displaying any kind of humility. They barely conceal their glee at having the political capital to spend on this policy.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#565

Post by tayo42 »

tracedddd wrote: post #57
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

We shouldn’t applaud the normalization of health status checks outside a border crossing. The world has a nasty trend of using crises to erode privacy and we collectively never recover - what was sold as temporary becomes permanent, endlessly extended and expanded. I’m not an antivaxer. The vaccine works and I believe it’s really safe. I’m vaccinated. Nearly anyone who is capable to go to a bar can easily go get vacc…

Do you not show your ID at a bar? What privacy are you giving up here?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#566

Post by maerF0x0 »

cletus wrote: post #225

In 2000, WHO declared measles "eradicated" in the United States [1]. Of course, that's no longer the case thanks to those who have decided their feelings and watching an unverified Youtube video trumps science. Requiring vaccination is not new. As a matter of law in the US the issue was settled by the Supreme Court in Jacobson v. Massachussetts in 1905 [2]. Mandatory vaccination has been used to effectively eliminate…

> The idea that we're somehow missing side effects is quite frankly ridiculous at this point.

I personally went to the ER with heart attack like symptoms (chest pain) and it was Pericarditis . No one warned me of this risk. Now I'm footing the $15k bill for the good of the public. Additionally no doctor suggested reporting it to VAERS. Why? i suspect because it's become taboo to speak ill of the vaccine in any way. (watch to see if this comment gets downvoted to oblivion, proving the point)

"Free" turned out to be not so free for me.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/my...

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#567

Post by pmarreck »

tracedddd wrote: post #70
tantalor wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

Pointing out a slippery slope doesn’t mean it isn’t worth considering the consequences. My position is indeed speculative, however it’s not without evidence. We very rarely regain rights or freedoms when they are taken so I think it’s valid to be concerned about the same thing happening here.

> We very rarely regain rights or freedoms when they are taken so I think it’s valid to be concerned about the same thing happening here.

The doctors who gained, then lost, police powers to enforce quarantine during the "Spanish Flu" would like to have a word

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#568

Post by barbazoo »

cletus wrote: post #225

In 2000, WHO declared measles "eradicated" in the United States [1]. Of course, that's no longer the case thanks to those who have decided their feelings and watching an unverified Youtube video trumps science. Requiring vaccination is not new. As a matter of law in the US the issue was settled by the Supreme Court in Jacobson v. Massachussetts in 1905 [2]. Mandatory vaccination has been used to effectively eliminate…

> We've now administered billions of doses of Covid-19 vaccines. The idea that we're somehow missing side effects is quite frankly ridiculous at this point.

I truly hope that we're right on this one.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#569

Post by caeril »

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

> you might be opposed to this policy if: { 1...2...3 }

You listed three reasons that people might be opposed to the vaccine itself, not merely the policy. None of these are applicable to my particular group, of which there are many:

4. You are pro-vaccine and anti-covid, but strictly opposed to insane and tyrannical government overreach by the very same people who literally murdered tens of thousands of elderly nursing home patients in 2020 by intentionally exposing them to COVID patients.

It's strange you didn't even consider this option, as if meek, bootlicking obedience to authority - specifically, authority that has already demonstrated that they don't care at all about preventing COVID deaths - is to you as water is to a fish.

> take your chances with coronavirus, which you will get sooner or later, and spread it.

This is patently ridiculous. I am fully vaccinated, but the research is clear - I can carry an infection just as effectively in my nasal cavity as my antivax cousin. Showing my card at the door does PRECISELY NOTHING to prevent spread. The Times, no friend to the antivax crew, grudgingly admitted this a few days ago:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/29/health/cdc-masks-vaccinat...

It's quite obvious at this point, that vaccination protects ME, and ME alone. Pretending that vaccination status confers magical sainthood and capital-P Purity amongst its devotees is old hat.

And enacting actual unconstitutional policy predicated on old science is even worse.

I'm still waiting, after a year and a half, for any governments, anywhere, to mandate the ONLY thing that the science is VERY CLEAR will ACTUALLY dramatically reduce COVID fatalities among everyone under 70: mandatory weight loss for the obese.

But something tells me you won't advocate for THAT particular policy position, will you?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#570

Post by SergeAx »

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

Anecdotal case: I got covid this January, quite symptomatic, full anosmia, high fever and about 20% of lungs damaged. Since then I contacted freshly infected people at least twice. Both of them became sick 1-2 days after contact, one with proved Delta variant. In both cases I self-quarantined and get mild symptoms for 2-3 days: light fever, partial anosmia. Both time I got significant increase of IgG antibodies. So I consider my immunity is first class. At the same time, both persons I contracted virus from were fully vaccinated with two doses couple of months ago, one of them had a pretty bad case, missed hospital just one day away.

The point is: if someone is ready to take a risk and contract covid - society should allow it because those people will either die on they own knowledge, or get a better immunity than any vaccine can offer. We know now that vaccination status and even natural immunity is not stopping people from virus transmission, so this argument is off the table.

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