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NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

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Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#441

Post by mensetmanusman »

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

4. You had covid, and you don’t want to pay pharmaceutical companies to go to McDonalds.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#442

Post by Clubber »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #426
Clubber wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't tell the CIA that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentatio...

"CIA bad!" is pretty common trope around here. I think many would consider the CIA, in part or whole, to be a subset of the bad guys.

>I think many would consider the CIA, in part or whole, to be a subset of the bad guys.

Yes, that's what I was insinuating.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#444

Post by peder »

jrockway wrote: post #150
tracedddd wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We shouldn’t applaud the normalization of health status checks outside a border crossing. The world has a nasty trend of using crises to erode privacy and we collectively never recover - what was sold as temporary becomes permanent, endlessly extended and expanded. I’m not an antivaxer. The vaccine works and I believe it’s really safe. I’m vaccinated. Nearly anyone who is capable to go to a bar can easily go get vacc…

What sort of things will health checks be used for in the future? Once Covid is gone, I don't think people will really care about your health information beyond entities that already care (health insurance providers denying coverage because of preexisting conditions, etc.) Certainly, The Mets won't care if you got your flu shot this year, and your local bar probably won't care that you didn't get your annual physical…

Once a system is in place, it'll be repurposed and never go away. Also, "Once Covid is gone". By what metric will it be "gone"? Are you talking zero COVID? That's never ever happening.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#445

Post by 12elephant »

standardUser wrote: post #374
rPlayer6554 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those vaccines have had years of use behind them. The coronavirus mRNA vaccines are a completely new technology and haven't even been given anything past emergency approval. This is an apples and oranges comparison.

"The coronavirus mRNA vaccines are a completely new technology" There have been mRNA vaccines in human clinical trials for around 10 years and they have been studied for around 30 years. There are countless examples of other non-controversial medicines developed and studied for far shorter lengths of time.

What is one mRNA vaccine that has been approved by the FDA?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#446

Post by sergiomattei »

timr wrote: post #438
rubicon33 wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We should be reacting rationally to rates of hospitalization and deaths -- and right now, those are barely changed in NYC, No. No. No. No. No. Why is this so hard for people to understand? A virus doesn't just enter your body, and quietly go away. In MANY cases, it can have a lasting effect on your underlying health and wellness. This isn't a point of question, it's a known FACT that is all too often left out of th…

Thank you for providing an excellent example of the fear-based reasoning surrounding "cases". I understand that you are scared, but is incorrect to imply that my opinion comes from a lack of understanding of what you're talking about. > Why is this so hard for people to understand? I understand your argument, but I disagree with you, based on a long education in this area, a deep understanding of the data, and person…

> I understand your argument, but I disagree with you, based on a long edudcation, and a deep understanding of the data.

Where's the data? I didn't see a single source listed, just anecdotes from you and your family.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#447

Post by hartator »

jrockway wrote: post #150
tracedddd wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We shouldn’t applaud the normalization of health status checks outside a border crossing. The world has a nasty trend of using crises to erode privacy and we collectively never recover - what was sold as temporary becomes permanent, endlessly extended and expanded. I’m not an antivaxer. The vaccine works and I believe it’s really safe. I’m vaccinated. Nearly anyone who is capable to go to a bar can easily go get vacc…

What sort of things will health checks be used for in the future? Once Covid is gone, I don't think people will really care about your health information beyond entities that already care (health insurance providers denying coverage because of preexisting conditions, etc.) Certainly, The Mets won't care if you got your flu shot this year, and your local bar probably won't care that you didn't get your annual physical…

> Once Covid is gone

It will never be completely gone though, like terrorism.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#448

Post by cwkoss »

janitor61 wrote: post #90

pragmatically, the mandatory vaccinations seem to be predicated on the following assumptions: 1. Asymptomatic transmission is the primary vector and just as dangerous as being in proximity to a sick individual - has this been confirmed or refuted? Obviously-sick people aren't going to be in restaurants and bars so they can be taken out of the equation entirely. The virus has a normal lifecycle like all others: incuba…

> Obviously-sick people aren't going to be in restaurants and bars so they can be taken out of the equation entirely.

I think this is neither obvious nor true. There are an unfortunate number of people in this country who choose to go out and socialize when they have active symptoms.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#449

Post by Uberphallus »

rPlayer6554 wrote: post #67
eropple wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many compulsory vaccines were necessary for you to attend school? For me, it was three or four at least, and until some genuinely inimical people decided vaccines were a good way to get famous at the expense of the body politic, nobody cared .

Those vaccines have had years of use behind them. The coronavirus mRNA vaccines are a completely new technology and haven't even been given anything past emergency approval. This is an apples and oranges comparison.

And this is a completely new virus. If regular vaccines vs mRNA is apples to oranges, then vaccines vs. any other option to solve the problem is oranges to a truckload of durian.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#450

Post by hunter2_ »

Alupis wrote: post #367
mcguire wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" We have never before justified such intrusive government policies based on the risks faced by these individuals. " That would be false. https://www.cde.ca.gov/ls/he/hn/immunization.asp which points to https://www.shotsforschool.org/child-care/ https://www.shotsforschool.org/7th-grade/ https://www.shotsforschool.org/k-12/ And then there's https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-8-part-b-chapter-...

Your children don't need to go to a public school, or daycare. You can home school if you're so opposed to these things. What alternative do I have for going to the beach - and outdoor space? What alternative does the private gym owner/operator have? These steps are not the same as your examples.

I was thinking about these categories with the opposite approach: we need a safe way [to educate people without the burden of home schooling] way more than we need a safe way [to eat/exercise without the burden of doing so at home].
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