Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

nypost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

361–370 of 1001 posts

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#361

Post by drngdds »

908B64B197 wrote: post #193
gr1zzlybe4r wrote: post #137

This is the point where we have to stop making trade offs of choice and liberty in the name of "security". Give the public open data about the effectiveness of the vaccine and then let people make their own decisions about what to do. The moralization and judgement about the vaccine has become ludicrous. If you're scared to do things around others even if you're vaccinated, then that's fine. We cannot accept a societ…

> Give the public open data about the effectiveness of the vaccine and then let people make their own decisions about what to do. Exactly. Governments need to figure out why people aren't getting vaccinated and fix those issues.

The biggest reason is disinformation coming from social media and conservative media outlets. That can't be fixed while respecting the first amendment.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#362

Post by nicoffeine »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #208
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

I care more about the health of small business than I do about the health of people who contract covid and will continue to view all sociopolitical activity through that unchanging lens.

I agree to some extent, but if the virus mutates among the unvaccinated and breaks through all current vaccines, small businesses profitability will be a small part of a much larger catastrophe.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#363

Post by bart_spoon »

textgel wrote: post #270
bart_spoon wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your hang up is the FDA giving full approval? Because recent reports indicate that will likely be happening for the Pfizer vaccine next month. Somehow I think there will be a major shifting of goalposts by the anti-vax camp around that time.

> Requiring people to consume a medical product just to live their normal lives is morally wrong. > So your hang up is the FDA giving full approval? Perhaps they will but could you save the strawman arguments for then as well.

It’s not a strawman. We already require a variety of vaccinations so the “requiring people to consume a medical product is wrong” argument is bunk. The only differentiation is that this vaccine has yet to receive full approval. I’m simply focusing on the only relevant part of the argument that is being made here, and pointing out that in 6 weeks it won’t hold any water anymore.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#364

Post by bwship »

jensensbutton wrote: post #338
bwship wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100 out of 100 unaborted babies, when polled, were happy they weren't killed while living in the womb. [Edit] - sorry /s

100 out of 100 vaccinated people were happy they didn't die from covid. See how your argument sounds?

What is the death rate of covid? like .01%. If you don't get the vax, your likelihood of dying is just so low, so why all the fearmongering?

Edit - .054% chance of dying. 4.25M deaths worldwide out of 7.8 billion people.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#365

Post by _red »

JoshTko wrote: post #201
timr wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am pro-vaccine (and fully vaccinated), but I don't support this policy at all. I don't believe this will have much of a net effect on vaccination rate, I believe it will disproportionately negatively impact poor and minority populations in NYC who already have a bad/mistrustful relationship with health care and government, and it is obviously a huge new governmental intrusion into our daily lives. It might well lea…

A high vaccination rate is most beneficial for poor and minority populations as they are by far the most exposed to the virus via work.

High vaccination rates will only exert selection pressure on the virus causing new mutation strains to become dominant.

How is this not understood?

Vaccines should only be used for targeted at-risk population. Everyone else should strive for natural immunity.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#366

Post by mrfusion »

crazygringo wrote: post #284
mrfusion wrote: post #230

A bit off topic but you know what’s really jarring for me? For the past ten years I’ve agreed with the majority on hacker news on almost every issue. Software patents, voting rights, who knows what else. Everyone seemed to just find the right answer and it made sense. Then all of a sudden I’m in tiny minority because I believe people should be able to choose what they put in their own bodies. It really feels like a t…

What are you talking about? The vast majority of comments here seem to be against this policy. So how does that make you a tiny minority on HN?

Sorry I think it was leaning the other way when I wrote the comment. At least the top section I read through. Good news. I’ll leave my comment up.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#367

Post by Alupis »

mcguire wrote: post #301
timr wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am pro-vaccine (and fully vaccinated), but I don't support this policy at all. I don't believe this will have much of a net effect on vaccination rate, I believe it will disproportionately negatively impact poor and minority populations in NYC who already have a bad/mistrustful relationship with health care and government, and it is obviously a huge new governmental intrusion into our daily lives. It might well lea…

" We have never before justified such intrusive government policies based on the risks faced by these individuals. " That would be false. https://www.cde.ca.gov/ls/he/hn/immunization.asp which points to https://www.shotsforschool.org/child-care/ https://www.shotsforschool.org/7th-grade/ https://www.shotsforschool.org/k-12/ And then there's https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-8-part-b-chapter-...

Your children don't need to go to a public school, or daycare. You can home school if you're so opposed to these things.

What alternative do I have for going to the beach - and outdoor space? What alternative does the private gym owner/operator have?

These steps are not the same as your examples.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#368

Post by pengaru »

ryandrake wrote: post #51
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

I have a family member who, despite acknowledging that seat belts work and save lives, refuses to wear his seat belt purely out of petty spite "because I'm not gonna let the tyrannical government tell me what to do!" This endless conversation about vaccines is feeling more and more like that. Orthodox Individualism has become a religion.

Except not wearing a seatbelt harms noone but yourself, and frankly it's up to the individual if they value surviving a car accident.

I've had police tell me the rationalization for seatbelt laws is by minimizing ambulance use in crashes, it saves the lives of others and reduces traffic congestion. This is the reasoning put forth for making not wearing a seatbelt a ticketable offense. Last I checked emergency services like ambulances aren't even considered an essential service provided by the government, yet we're being nickel and dimed by the government on their behalf as something so essential we mustn't unnecessarily affect their availability.

Seat belt laws seem mostly about fundraising for local governments from where I'm sitting. When they have a budget shortfall, suddenly traffic stops are tacking on seat belt tickets like gangbusters.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#369

Post by rcpt »

cwkoss wrote: post #326
trident5000 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you know, let people decide if they want to take a risk. What do I care if someone doesnt want to get vaccinated and put themselves at risk? Thats on them. Just like they can go bungee jump or drive a race car.

It's an infectious disease. This isn't an issue of "you can risk your own life and health" - unvaccinated people are risking the lives of many others in their communities. You can't kill your neighbor's grandmother by bungee jumping.

It's odd. When people don't heed fire evacuations to try and save their homes they put first responders at risk and are lionized by the press.

https://www.santacruzsentinel.com/2009/08/14/bonny-dooners-b...

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#370

Post by usaar333 »

heavyset_go wrote: post #277
usaar333 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there evidence NYC's hospital system could be overloaded? UK just peaked ( https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/); Does NYC have significantly worse vaccine coverage in vulnerable populations or worse capacity?

> Is there evidence NYC's hospital system could be overloaded? Yes, because exactly that happened in March and April of 2020, leading to tens of thousands of deaths. Here's your evidence[1][2][3]. [1] https://abc7ny.com/nyc-hospital-queens-coronavirus-news/6070... [2] https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/us/brooklyn-hospital-coronavi... [3] https://www.foxnews.com/health/nyc-hospitals-overwhelmed-by-...

That's before a considerable amount of population gained some level of immunity. UK experienced relatively low hospitalization in their last wave.
Post reply on HN