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NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

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Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#351

Post by chrisco255 »

ashtonkem wrote: post #330
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

It’s also worth pointing out that this isn’t exactly a new policy. Most forms of education from kindergarten through college requires proof of various vaccines. I remember having to get a whole slew of boosters at 18 because we couldn’t find the old records in order to go to college. You’d think that after a pandemic has killed 600,000 of our fellow citizens we’d be able to come together and simply repeat as adults w…

I don't have proof of any vaccine I have ever received. I didn't need to submit any kind of vaccination proof to go to college. Yes, I got my MMR and Tetanus shots in Kindergarten, but no one has cared since. And even then you can get exceptions. Medical fascism is not normal or acceptable in everyday life. We dealt with far worse diseases including smallpox, polio and many others without this authoritarianism.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#352

Post by ashtonkem »

chrisco255 wrote: post #351
ashtonkem wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also worth pointing out that this isn’t exactly a new policy. Most forms of education from kindergarten through college requires proof of various vaccines. I remember having to get a whole slew of boosters at 18 because we couldn’t find the old records in order to go to college. You’d think that after a pandemic has killed 600,000 of our fellow citizens we’d be able to come together and simply repeat as adults w…

I don't have proof of any vaccine I have ever received. I didn't need to submit any kind of vaccination proof to go to college. Yes, I got my MMR and Tetanus shots in Kindergarten, but no one has cared since. And even then you can get exceptions. Medical fascism is not normal or acceptable in everyday life. We dealt with far worse diseases including smallpox, polio and many others without this authoritarianism.

Which college did you go to?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#353

Post by threatofrain »

mrfusion wrote: post #259
threatofrain wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the vaccine is as effective as it seems, then this decision feels positively nanny state to me. It takes away an individual's agency to inform themselves of the risks on both sides and make an informed decision. Do people feel the same way about schools requiring vaccines, or children getting the MMR, Hep B, or Polio vaccines?

For one thing those are policies that were carefully developed over decades not in a few weeks in the middle of a mass panic. Also those policies usually have religious and medical exemptions.

Does cautious science make the state less of a nanny? Isn't the critique of nanny state about whether the state is acting like a parent, knowing what's good for you?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#354

Post by potiuper »

afavour wrote: post #127
potiuper wrote: post #28

Kids cannot get the vaccine. So, are they all banned?

No, the article states they are not.

The article states, "De Blasio said City Hall is finalizing the regulations, including if children younger than 12 years old with vaccinated parents will be allowed to dine indoors." if does not mean that they are not banned; it also does not provide an expectation from city hall as to their direction on the issue of children.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#355

Post by gumby »

timr wrote: post #347
mcguire wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" We have never before justified such intrusive government policies based on the risks faced by these individuals. " That would be false. https://www.cde.ca.gov/ls/he/hn/immunization.asp which points to https://www.shotsforschool.org/child-care/ https://www.shotsforschool.org/7th-grade/ https://www.shotsforschool.org/k-12/ And then there's https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-8-part-b-chapter-...

We have never required anything like this to go to a restaurant . Or the gym. Or the beach. This is a huge new step. Pointing out that children must be vaccinated against viruses that disproportionately harm children in order to participate in public education is true, but irrelevant to the question. Pointing out that we require certain vaccinations of immigrants is true, but irrelevant to the question. (Not for noth…

> We have never required anything like this to go to a restaurant. Or the gym. Or the beach. This is a huge new step.

Indeed, instead there used to be mandatory, involuntary quarantine enforcement, sometimes (typhus, polio) on a per-household basis with the enforcement notice posted prominently on the front door. That restricted not only restaurants and beach visits but all visits of any kind.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#356

Post by rubyist5eva »

bob33212 wrote: post #273
rubyist5eva wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't honestly see the difference between an easily visible piece of clothing versus medical data that many people consider private between them and their physician(s)? There is zero chance this is a good faith argument.

Obviously I can see shoes on people's feet easier than I can see antibodies inside someone. But the point isn't how I find out if you are wearing shoes or not. The point is that someone is telling you that you have to do something to your body. Putting on shoes and getting a vaccine are both actions that you may want to decide to do on your own and not have someone else tell you that you have to do.

It's a matter of degrees my guy, and people aren't rabidly frothing at the mouth to eject non-shoe wearers from common society.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#357

Post by [deleted] »

guntars wrote: post #296
tboyd47 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that the endgame is to keep on pushing tighter and tighter restrictions on certain communities of people, strongly discouraging open debate, leaving dissenters no other option but to physically remove themselves, until only the most compliant remain, forming a tight-knit, ideologically homogenous group.

> certain communities of people What communities are being targeted? Everyone who leaves their house is affected. > strongly discouraging open debate We're debating it here just fine. > dissenters [..] physically remove themselves Voluntarily unvaccinated walking COVID vectors? Yes, that's exactly the point.

[deleted]

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#358

Post by standardUser »

polote wrote: post #25
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

This measure can't be a way to create "zero covid spaces" because people who are vaccinated can still transmit the virus (even though less than unvaccinated people, but it doesnt seem to be a 90% reduction either). So the goal here is to increase the vaccination rate. It seems pretty weird to ask the indoor business owners to be the ones who are in charge of controlling that the vaccination rate is increasing and to…

"...people who are vaccinated can still transmit the virus "

Well, yes, In the same way an infant may fight Muhammad Ali. Futurama references aside, the vast majority of data shows that vaccinated people are far less likely to spread the virus.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#359

Post by mrfusion »

threatofrain wrote: post #353
mrfusion wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one thing those are policies that were carefully developed over decades not in a few weeks in the middle of a mass panic. Also those policies usually have religious and medical exemptions.

Does cautious science make the state less of a nanny? Isn't the critique of nanny state about whether the state is acting like a parent, knowing what's good for you?

Good point for sure.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#360

Post by searine »

timr wrote: post #347
mcguire wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" We have never before justified such intrusive government policies based on the risks faced by these individuals. " That would be false. https://www.cde.ca.gov/ls/he/hn/immunization.asp which points to https://www.shotsforschool.org/child-care/ https://www.shotsforschool.org/7th-grade/ https://www.shotsforschool.org/k-12/ And then there's https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-8-part-b-chapter-...

We have never required anything like this to go to a restaurant . Or the gym. Or the beach. This is a huge new step. Pointing out that children must be vaccinated against viruses that disproportionately harm children in order to participate in public education is true, but irrelevant to the question. Pointing out that we require certain vaccinations of immigrants is true, but irrelevant to the question. (Not for noth…

Suggesting that Adults must be vaccinated against viruses that disproportionately harm Adults in order to participate in public life is not irrelevant to the question
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