NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings • Hacker News Board

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#331

Post by dotcommand » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:58 PM UTC

psychometry wrote: post #320

dotcommand wrote: post #303

Everyone has to be vaccinated and we must all prove it to exist in society ( even people who had covid )? So, it isn't about herd immunity anymore? It isn't about stopping covid, but getting everyone the vaccine and forcing them to carry identification everywhere? "It’s time for people to see vaccination as necessary to living a good and full and healthy life,” de Blasio said during his daily press briefing." That's…

Delta variant necessitates a higher level of herd immunity because it's so much more transmissible. > Everyone has to be vaccinated and we must all prove it to exist in society ( even people who had covid )? So, it isn't about herd immunity anymore? It isn't about stopping covid, but getting everyone the vaccine and forcing them to carry identification everywhere? No, it's very obviously about stopping covid. Don't b…

> Delta variant necessitates a higher level of herd immunity because it's so much more transmissible.

How much higher? 100%?

> No, it's very obviously about stopping covid.

Then why are those who already got covid told to get the vaccines? Doesn't make much sense does it?

> Don't be obtuse.

Are you part of the team downvoting anyone who is simple asking basic questions? The covid brigading is rather obvious and hilarious.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#332

Post by ajsnigrutin » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:58 PM UTC

asdff wrote: post #161

jrockway wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What sort of things will health checks be used for in the future? Once Covid is gone, I don't think people will really care about your health information beyond entities that already care (health insurance providers denying coverage because of preexisting conditions, etc.) Certainly, The Mets won't care if you got your flu shot this year, and your local bar probably won't care that you didn't get your annual physical…

We could honestly probably save billions in healthcare costs if we mandated a yearly physical and cancer screening. It would lift our economy catching these costly diseases and health issues while they are still easily and cheaply treatable.

You'd also save billions, if you forced diets on people, forbid cigarettes, stopped selling sugar water with colorings, forbid driving, forbid skiing, hiking, climbing, and all other dangerous sports, keep social isolation every flu season, forbid casual sex (stds, unwanted children),... you'd just somehow have to stop suicides in the end.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#333

Post by Miner49er » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:58 PM UTC

bombela wrote: post #291

srcreigh wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the harm in letting unvaccinated people spread covid amongst themselves? Vaccinated people aren't at risk. Unvaccinated people know the risks and they've had plenty of time to be vaccinated. It's not illegal to decide to do $XYZ_DANGEROUS_ACTIVITY, why should it be illegal to be exposed to covid? The only concern in theory is that a vaccine-immune covid variant could develop amongst unvaccinated populations. I…

If you are immunocompromised. Even though vaccinated. You could still catch the virus and be seriously impacted by it for example. The vaccine is not a guaranteed 100% protection for a healthy young person. And the weaker you are, the worse are the odds. And then you have the possiblity of mutations. The longueur the virus is on circulation. The more likely it is to mutate with worse outcome.

> And then you have the possiblity of mutations. The longueur the virus is on circulation. The more likely it is to mutate with worse outcome.

Yeah, but mutations are most likely gonna come from the billions that are unvaccinated outside the US. If this is the main concern, we should be doing all we can to make sure people in other countries (many of whom are very willing to take the vaccine) are getting the vaccine.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#334

Post by handrous » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:59 PM UTC

Daishiman wrote: post #168

stickfigure wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Residents of the US have self-selected into two cohorts: 1) People that will get resistance via vaccines 2) People that will get resistance via infection Some 30-40% of the US population decided on #2. Roughly 0.7% of them will die because of that decision, but this is exactly what they are asking for ! If you are in cohort #1, you really don't have a lot to worry about from the virus. Why are you denying people the…

I am in cohort #1. I don't want to continue to increase the chances of breakthrough mutations and I do not want others to do so. I do not want a substantial number of people getting sick and having to use collective resources to heal them at the expense of others because of a collectively bad choice. I do not want to substitute, work overtime, or have reduced productivity due to this. While vaccinated people are fair…

> I am in cohort #1. I don't want to continue to increase the chances of breakthrough mutations and I do not want others to do so.

I'm very much with you, but I think that ship sailed between the lack of international coordination, the lack of vaccination mandates or other measures to improve rates even in the well-supplied-with-vaccine US, and the rush to remove other measures like closures and mask mandates way before it made any sense to.

Instead, we're running an active program to train COVID to overcome the "miracle" vaccine we're so proud of. Should be... interesting.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#335

Post by bern4444 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:59 PM UTC

analyte123 wrote: post #81

bern4444 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaccination in NY/NYC is easily proven. Picture of your vaccine card is sufficent and there's also the excelsior pass which is a QR code. Super easy to get from a city/state website after entering a few details (think name, when your last vaccine was, which vaccine etc). This can be downloaded as an image, into apple wallet etc. For those who chose not to, they can stick to carrying around their vaccine card (just as…

Getting a vaccine to cross an international border is not the same as getting a vaccine to walk to a bar on your own street in your own country. Besides, people who have not had the Covid vaccine are not directly preventing anyone from enjoying life. The people are either choosing to not enjoy life themselves, or their government is putting restrictions on them (and then they are obeying them) while blaming the restr…

> Getting a vaccine to cross an international border is not the same as getting a vaccine to walk to a bar on your own street in your own country.

In NY it's trivial to get this vaccine. Getting it is certainly easier than getting any other government id (state id, permit, driver's license etc). Certainly ID is needed to purchase alcohol, drive a car, etc. Maybe not at a bar, but often for purchasing alcohol from a liquor or wine store.

> Besides, people who have not had the Covid vaccine are not directly preventing anyone from enjoying life.

Of course they are. They're taking up space in hospitals, endangering public health, and causing unnecessary harm by spreading covid and increasing the risk of a new variant.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#336

Post by tootie » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:59 PM UTC

srcreigh wrote: post #269

alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

What's the harm in letting unvaccinated people spread covid amongst themselves? Vaccinated people aren't at risk. Unvaccinated people know the risks and they've had plenty of time to be vaccinated. It's not illegal to decide to do $XYZ_DANGEROUS_ACTIVITY, why should it be illegal to be exposed to covid? The only concern in theory is that a vaccine-immune covid variant could develop amongst unvaccinated populations. I…

I see this opinion a lot and I think we can title LTFD or Let Them F** Die. Aside from the practical concerns about hospital crowding and the spread of potential breakthrough cases, I think it's also shamefully sadistic and punitive. I strongly disagree with anyone who is hesitant about getting vaccinated, but I still feel obligated to protect them as human beings and not just abandon their safety even if they don't want to protect themselves.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#337

Post by alonmower » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 8:00 PM UTC

SirensOfTitan wrote: post #89

ysavir wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If the vaccine is as effective as it seems, then this decision feels positively nanny state to me. It takes away an individual's agency to inform themselves of the risks on both sides and make an informed decision If this were mandating that every resident of NYC must be vaccinated, I would agree. But it's not doing that. It's only saying that anyone wanting to dine (or possibly shop, too) indoors, that is, in space…

From Alec Karakatsanis's excellent Usual Cruelty on plea bargains: > “the Constitution requires that every guilty plea waiving the constitutional right to trial by a jury of one’s peers be knowing, intelligent, and voluntary.69 But no one who works in the criminal system thinks that contemporary plea bargaining produces voluntary agreements. The vast majority of plea bargains are accepted by people who are told that…

Who are they harming? Literally everyone else in the space that is now more likely to be exposed to someone with the virus (and who has taken fewer precautions to avoid being contagious)

People’s rights to swing their fists around wildly end at my face

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#338

Post by jensensbutton » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 8:00 PM UTC

bwship wrote: post #287

asdff wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you want to live in a place that respects your right to choose what you do with your body and your life, come on down south Unless you are a pregnant woman you mean!

100 out of 100 unaborted babies, when polled, were happy they weren't killed while living in the womb. [Edit] - sorry /s

100 out of 100 vaccinated people were happy they didn't die from covid.

See how your argument sounds?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#339

Post by threatofrain » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 8:00 PM UTC

SirensOfTitan wrote: post #158

threatofrain wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the vaccine is as effective as it seems, then this decision feels positively nanny state to me. It takes away an individual's agency to inform themselves of the risks on both sides and make an informed decision. Do people feel the same way about schools requiring vaccines, or children getting the MMR, Hep B, or Polio vaccines?

As I clearly mentioned, this vaccine is not FDA approved. We have no idea of the long term effects. I find it fairly reasonable to not want to be a test subject.

Do vaccines being approved by government make the government not a nanny state? Isn't that still a matter of government knowing what's good for you, as a parent would?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#340

Post by throwitaway1235 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 8:00 PM UTC

throwitaway1235 wrote: post #308

Does anyone believe this will be expanded to grocery stores, pharmacies and other basic services come fall? My job is already close to pushing mandatory vaccination and I'm trying to decide whether I should pack up my things and leave? 30 year resident and heartbroken.

It's a serious question. Why downvote? Because you think it's coming but don't want to warn people?