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NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

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Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#191

Post by nickthemagicman »

stickfigure wrote: post #91
alecst wrote: post #9

Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy. From what I can tell, you might be opposed to this policy if: 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone ea…

Residents of the US have self-selected into two cohorts: 1) People that will get resistance via vaccines 2) People that will get resistance via infection Some 30-40% of the US population decided on #2. Roughly 0.7% of them will die because of that decision, but this is exactly what they are asking for ! If you are in cohort #1, you really don't have a lot to worry about from the virus. Why are you denying people the…

Just under 50% of the country has no vaccine despite it being free and widely available for months.

Only 57% have up to one dose.

If it was a vote the vaccine would have lost.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#192

Post by asdff »

bwship wrote: post #64

Glad I left LA last September. I can't believe NYC is going even more extreme than there, but they are. The good news, is my home purchase down here in Charleston is up 10% in only 3 months. This ridiculousness in CCP NYC will only help ensure my home price goes through the roof. So, yes, if you want to live in a place that respects your right to choose what you do with your body and your life, come on down south. Ju…

> if you want to live in a place that respects your right to choose what you do with your body and your life, come on down south

Unless you are a pregnant woman you mean!

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#193

Post by 908B64B197 »

gr1zzlybe4r wrote: post #137

This is the point where we have to stop making trade offs of choice and liberty in the name of "security". Give the public open data about the effectiveness of the vaccine and then let people make their own decisions about what to do. The moralization and judgement about the vaccine has become ludicrous. If you're scared to do things around others even if you're vaccinated, then that's fine. We cannot accept a societ…

> Give the public open data about the effectiveness of the vaccine and then let people make their own decisions about what to do.

Exactly. Governments need to figure out why people aren't getting vaccinated and fix those issues.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#194

Post by standardUser »

rajin444 wrote: post #147
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the goal here is to increase the vaccination rate The goal is to avoid overloading the hospital system. Vaccinated people spreading the Delta variant amongst each other is not going to do that. Unvaccinated people getting sick will.

> The goal is to avoid overloading the hospital system If that's the goal we need to decide what things are ok to go to the hospital for and what aren't. A lot of hospital visits could be prevented if we took the obesity epidemic seriously - I imagine the CFR of covid would be way down if America was not so obese. And if we're ok with mandating vaccines, we should definitely be ok with mandating a healthy bodyfat %.…

"A lot of hospital visits could be prevented if we took the obesity epidemic seriously:"

That's a lovely multi-generational idea and we should work towards it in the coming decades. Meanwhile, as 400 Americans die of a preventable illness every single day, we should prioritize reducing the hospitalization rate. Florida became the most recent state to halt surgeries at some hospitals... again.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#195

Post by schrijver »

jrockway wrote: post #150
tracedddd wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We shouldn’t applaud the normalization of health status checks outside a border crossing. The world has a nasty trend of using crises to erode privacy and we collectively never recover - what was sold as temporary becomes permanent, endlessly extended and expanded. I’m not an antivaxer. The vaccine works and I believe it’s really safe. I’m vaccinated. Nearly anyone who is capable to go to a bar can easily go get vacc…

What sort of things will health checks be used for in the future? Once Covid is gone, I don't think people will really care about your health information beyond entities that already care (health insurance providers denying coverage because of preexisting conditions, etc.) Certainly, The Mets won't care if you got your flu shot this year, and your local bar probably won't care that you didn't get your annual physical…

> What sort of things will health checks be used for in the future? Once Covid is gone (…)

Will it be gone? As far as I understand, the Delta variant remains contagious even among vaccinated people, so it will likely stay around. Now that there’s vaccines, it’s just less dangerous (to the vaccinated). But any system of health checks you set up now could stay in place for a long time.

> The Mets won't care if you got your flu shot this year

The flu shot is a pretty interesting example. People die all the time because others didn’t get their flu shot. Where I live only half of the healthcare workers get it. The Mets could save lives by requiring that their patrons get it. And yet we don’t get very worked up about these jabs. Maybe covid showed us that we should? I don’t know, but it shows that covid isn’t some unique phenomenon, and that the way we deal with will have repercussions how we deal with other health issues going forward.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#197

Post by clukic »

Vaccine requirements have been in place for decades. For pre-K in NYC kids need shots for PCV and Hib.

For kindergarten they need more shots: Hep B, Polio, Chickenpox, and Measles, Mumps and Rubella.

Going to middle school? Then you'll need more shots, the TDAP and meningococcal conjugate.

These are all vaccine requirements. Is it an invasion or privacy to demand children's records? Is it the nanny state? We could go down that road, but who wants to live in a world where we lose herd immunity to all of those diseases because 30-40% of people choose to opt their children out?

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#198

Post by corey_moncure »

dont__panic wrote: post #173
corey_moncure wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My body, my choice only applies when we're talking about terminating the lives of unborn children, right?

Do unborn children occasionally pop out of women's bodies, enter other people's bodies, and reproduce uncontrollably to a point where they stop those other people from breathing? If so, we can apply the same logic to coronavirus and pregnancy. If not, you're just drawing a false parallel.

"The needs of society can override the individual's right to bodily self-determination". This is the thesis you need to tear down. Whence goes the vaccine, so goes abortion.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#199

Post by h_anna_h »

TomVDB wrote: post #153
tomp wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4) You oppose tyranny. People should be free to make their own choices. By going out unvaccinated, I'm not putting anyone in danger, except those who choose to be endangered (not isolating / sheltering at home, unmasked, unvaccinated). 5) You oppose discrimination. I'm immune but not vaccinated. Where's my immunity certificate?

> By going out unvaccinated, I'm not putting anyone in danger Yes, you are. * while a vaccinated person can spread the virus as well, current understanding is that it does so less than for an unvaccinated person. * vaccinated people can get sick, even if there's a much lower chance * vaccinated people can still have children who are not vaccinated None of this is absolute. It's a matter of percentages, chances and wh…

> * vaccinated people can still have children who are not vaccinated

They should just vaccinate them then. I don't see why it is fine for the children to be unvaccinated but not for tomp.

Re: NYC to mandate proof of vaccination for many indoor settings

#200

Post by rubyist5eva »

bob33212 wrote: post #165
cm2187 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the only reasons people wouldn't want to take the vaccine. For instance lots of people already had covid (particularly in NYC), and developed a natural immunity, which from the low reinfection rate, seems to be rock solid. It doesn't make a lot of sense to require that population to take a vaccine. As for the vaccine being more or less dangerous than the virus, I think for any population over 40 or in poor…

How is this any different than requiring people to wear shoes in specific locations? Some people prefer not to wear shoes, but for the legal liability and the risk of injury many locations require shoes. Don't go to those places if you feel strongly about not getting the vaccine or wearing shoes

You can't honestly see the difference between an easily visible piece of clothing versus medical data that many people consider private between them and their physician(s)? There is zero chance this is a good faith argument.
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