Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

#481

Post by redleader9345 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 1:24 PM UTC

abeppu wrote: post #144

Kranar wrote: post #11

To chime in with my own anecdotal opinion that is likely to anger some people... in my experience most developers do their best work after about 6-8 months of starting a job at a new company, and that comes to an end after about 24-36 months of working at the same company. After that the vast majority of people just stagnate, get complacent, the job stops being interesting to them and they move on. After observing th…

I think there's also an issue that a software engineer's job changes as they're more tenured at an organization. When you're newer, no one expects anything of you other than to come up to speed and build new stuff. If you have a project that doesn't require deep knowledge of the existing systems, push it to the newer guy. Only once you have deep knowledge of the systems you work with does it really make sense to give…

Well said. Typically in year two your job has more than doubled in the workload and responsibility that you're asked to carry.

Which makes the line chart even worse. Pay is flat but the demands of the job are not.

Re: Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

#482

Post by post325 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 2:57 PM UTC

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #476

phist_mcgee wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great to hear that you provided an awesome space for your team. I think we won't see this kind of loyalty much going forward though, the opportunity cost now of not changing jobs for more $ has a greater downside now that 20 years ago. House prices are beyond ridiculous, lockdowns create confusion about the next 12-24 months, the economy is in a terrible state, but somehow the stock market marches forward. The…

Unfortunately, I have to agree. My father never made more than $40,000 USD per year, but owned a house in a nice area, and two cars.

https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1980?amount=40000

You have to remember inflation though...

Re: Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

#483

Post by hnfong » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:00 PM UTC

jason0597 wrote: post #307

frankbreetz wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not one of those things: https://www.quora.com/Is-it-common-for-a-software-engineer-t...

I do not believe a couple of Quora replies are substantial enough evidence to prove an industry wide trend. How do we know those people on Quora aren't prone to sampling bias?

To be pedantic, "laws of physics" are supposed to be universal without exceptions...

Re: Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

#484

Post by randomdata » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:17 PM UTC

Ensorceled wrote: post #474

randomdata wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure you've shown that. I would be surprised if any meaningful number of (non-arranged) marriages are established in year zero of the relationship. A quick Google search suggests to me that the average relationship is established five years before getting married. The original assertion was that relationships tend to break down in year four, meaning that they aren't likely to make it to marriage in the typica…

No. The original assertion is that monogamous relationships AND marriages breakdown in the first five years at “very high rates”. Marriages do not. And, as you say, if you got married you were probably monogamous for some time before that. I’m not disputing that humans get together and break up all the time. It’s unclear that monogamous relationships breakup “at very high rates” due to boredom either. There are many…

No. There is no mention of marriage at all. The assertion was specific to monogamous relationships.

A monogamous relationship is usually, especially when not arranged, established well before marriage. Divorce rates that hinge on years of marriage and not years of relationship does not provide us with any useful information here.

Re: Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

#485

Post by jimsimmons » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 3:29 PM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #320

jimsimmons wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like your view. The thing is people are constantly resume building these days. And that resume is never done. You get a good job? Wouldn’t it be great if you got your name on a couple of cool things in your new place? After that returns start diminishing and people are quick to leverage and move on. I came to CA hoping to find mad coders lost in thought of their projects. All I see are career athletes

The problem is that his view has cost him millions of dollars. Not job hopping is a multi million dollar error his the part of them and their colleagues.

I value my time and attention. For example, right now I can work on a project that would impress my managers. Or I can work on what I think is the pressing, fundamental problem. Both are trade offs but I feel weird when I have to be blind to my own interests. What am I doing with all that money?

Re: Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

#486

Post by yjftsjthsd-h » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 4:28 PM UTC

WJW wrote: post #475

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...any chance you have a link, or even just what the article was about so I can search back for an excellent addition to my quotes file?

Turned out to be about hydride tanks for hydrogen storage, but still: > Hydride tanks don't require those high pressures. Other than nuclear arms treaties, is there a technical reason they don't use those instead? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27194023

Thanks; it's a little less funny than blockchain, but still good.

Re: Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

#487

Post by ppeetteerr » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 4:45 PM UTC

yupper32 wrote: post #134

ppeetteerr wrote: post #103

Many engineers are on their way out when they announce their departure. If they said: "hey, I'm thinking about joining this other company for a better compensation", that would be a topic of discussion. Most engineers instead tell me: "hey, I signed a contract with this other company. This is my last day". The other point is that money is not the only motivator (esp. in our industry). People just like change, either…

At the end of the day you were underpaying them, so I'm not sure putting the "blame" on the employee is the right way to frame this.

A company is not out there comparing salaries with salaries at other companies (not all, anyway). That would be too much pressure on a company to determine what compensation should be for that specific person. Not everyone can get into the top companies, so it's up to the employees themselves to determine what it means to be underpaid.

Re: Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

#488

Post by ppeetteerr » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 4:46 PM UTC

odiroot wrote: post #192

ppeetteerr wrote: post #103

Many engineers are on their way out when they announce their departure. If they said: "hey, I'm thinking about joining this other company for a better compensation", that would be a topic of discussion. Most engineers instead tell me: "hey, I signed a contract with this other company. This is my last day". The other point is that money is not the only motivator (esp. in our industry). People just like change, either…

> Last, signing bonuses are quite large... Is it a US-specific thing? Never heard of anyone getting it.

I didn't know about this until working in the US. Yeah, engineers here are royalty. They are better paid than doctors and lawyers. In other countries, a programmer is like a plumber.

Re: Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

#489

Post by ppeetteerr » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 4:47 PM UTC

throwawaysleep wrote: post #148

ppeetteerr wrote: post #103

Many engineers are on their way out when they announce their departure. If they said: "hey, I'm thinking about joining this other company for a better compensation", that would be a topic of discussion. Most engineers instead tell me: "hey, I signed a contract with this other company. This is my last day". The other point is that money is not the only motivator (esp. in our industry). People just like change, either…

I would never accept a counter offer anyway. Seems like leaving is too traumatic to the relationship.

Had a friend negotiate his salary and stay with the company over 6 years. Got pretty high up now that he has that much seniority.

Re: Why don't tech companies pay their engineers to stay?

#490

Post by yupper32 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 5:18 PM UTC

ppeetteerr wrote: post #487

yupper32 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the end of the day you were underpaying them, so I'm not sure putting the "blame" on the employee is the right way to frame this.

A company is not out there comparing salaries with salaries at other companies (not all, anyway). That would be too much pressure on a company to determine what compensation should be for that specific person. Not everyone can get into the top companies, so it's up to the employees themselves to determine what it means to be underpaid.

> so it's up to the employees themselves to determine what it means to be underpaid

You can say that all you want, but at the end of the day it's you that's losing talent.