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PhD student in Switzerland expelled after criticizing the CCP in Twitter

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Re: PhD student in Switzerland expelled after criticizing the CCP in Twitter

#81

The link leads to a reddit post, which leads to another reddit post, which leads to this article in Swiss: https://www.nzz.ch/schweiz/hsg-und-china-kritik-auf-twitter-... I can't read Swiss... but the comments on Reddit seem to show that this isn't as cut and dry as the title makes it sound. Quoting /u/hamsterman20: > "First of all, he was going to a chinese university with a chinese scholarship. > He left the swiss…

Considering that the CCP paid The NY Times, LA Times, and other major papers to publish propaganda pieces and not publish COVID lab leak pieces during 2020, I don't believe much of what I read when it comes to articles that could be deemed favorable to China.

“ The Daily Caller first reported the multimillion-dollar expenditures on June 8, based on an 86-page Justice Department filing dated June 1.”

[0] https://dailycaller.com/2020/06/08/chinese-propaganda-china-... [1] https://efile.fara.gov/docs/3457-Amendment-20200601-2.pdf

Re: PhD student in Switzerland expelled after criticizing the CCP in Twitter

#82
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. Maybe an admin can change the URL from reddit to this?

Maybe it would be better to change the URL to https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/oxmgg2/phd_student_... so that we can read the comment threads more easily; the Redditors are picking apart the claims in the article from different angles, while the newspaper is not.

Yes, I always trust random reddit comments more than newspapers.

Re: PhD student in Switzerland expelled after criticizing the CCP in Twitter

#83
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, from later on in the article, "Yet throughout the spring of 2020, the university stuck to its position that when the trouble over his tweets broke out, he had long since ceased to be a St. Gallen doctoral student." So it looks like the guy wasn't technically a student at the university at the time. I don't know but I would guess this was some kind of technical move that is commonly done but because he kicked…

Sounds like a very weak excuse. "We let our not-students keep their email accounts until we not-kick-them-out." The point is that a Swiss university retaliated against a Swiss student in Switzerland due to Chinese/CCP pressure because he voiced his political opinion.

I still have access to email accounts from previous educational institutions for 5 years. It's not uncommon at all.

Re: PhD student in Switzerland expelled after criticizing the CCP in Twitter

#84
I've thought a bit about this article and here's the important points of the story that I see, with an analysis at the end:

1. He used to be a student at the swiss university (call it SGU) 2. His research is about climate change, he goes to china to do his PhD and further his knowledge and study of it, falls in love with a Chinese girlfriend (he's anonymous in the article because of, according to him, repercussions by the Chinese government on the family of his girlfriend, which makes sense because when he tweeted critically about china she told him she was scared) 3. having started his PhD at SGU, he still had a "supervisory relationship" with someone there (she used this wording when she took distance from him) 4. He went to Switzerland to visit family, and was stuck there for Covid reasons. He thought of creating a twitter account to talk about china and asked his swiss supervisor whether it would be a bad idea, and whether she self-censors herself. She did not reply. He then started tweeting against China, thinking he'd be fine because he's in Switzerland. 5. Now, he receives an email from his supervisor, saying she received "angry e-mails from china" and that she might not be able to get a visa for entering china (which her research benefits from). He then deactivates his Twitter account and asks her who sent the e-mails, which gets him no replies. Two days later, another e-mail from her says she is "terminating" her supervisory relationship with him. Some short time later his account is deleted from SGU's online system, and he does not appear on the SGU website as a PhD student. 6. His dad contacts lawyers, the journal writing the article contacts the university, and their official stand is that his relationship with the supervisor was informal, and that his account was deleted simply because he unenrolled from the university a while ago so that he could spend more time in China to finish his PhD (otherwise, the max number of years allowed by SGU to do a PhD might be exceeded). He was unable to re-enrol to SGU because he did not have a suitable supervisor anymore. 7. The supervisor, when contacted by the journal, said that the "angry e-mails from China" were one student from Canada saying one of the guy's tweets was racist (it depicted a yellow-skin, exaggerated slanted-eyed caricature and was a retweet). She said that tweet was the only reason for her actions. To that, the student said he should not have retweeted that cartoon, but that he did it only for the political message it was trying to say, which was apparently concerning the oppression of Taiwan and other countries by China. She also said he had "lost his temper" in a conversation a year earlier, which eroded her trust for him. The article says there is no hint of tension in their e-mails.

So, I understand all the comments pointing out that it's fair that he's treated that way, given the tweets he made and the fact that he was technically only a student at the Chinese university. However there's a few points in this story that stand out to me. - Firstly, the university called the relationship between the student and the supervisor "informal". There's something strange about that, because if she was an informal supervisor acting only from her personal accord, then how would his personal tweets affect her ability to get a visa? There should in fact not be much of a link between them if he's not a student of the university. - Secondly, if it really was one student from Canada complaining about his one tweet, how could it affect her visa? Especially if he takes them down, as he did right when she reported it to him. - Thirdly, if it was only that one racist tweet that motivated her actions, it would surprise me that she would not ask him to take it down.

In conclusion, I see a few possibilities. It could be that the supervisor didn't like him anymore after the tweets, and decided she didn't want to work with him anymore, and then he was trapped by the decision to unenroll to go beyond the PhD year limit. Or it could be that the supervisor was under pressure by other people's e-mails (Chinese university officials) that warned her of consequences. Given that this university has the most agreements with Chinese universities of all Switzerland, my view on this would depend on how trustable the journalist is. The article sounds a lot like he's being clear and making sense, and the supervisor and university are using technicalities and lack of clarity to make obscure (to us) decisions.

Re: PhD student in Switzerland expelled after criticizing the CCP in Twitter

#85

Deep down in the reddit comments there is a statement from the university, which mentioned "The former supervisor's desire to clearly distance herself is understandable when an accusation of racism is in the air." Some other comments also mentioned a "racist cartoon". It is also mentioned in the report: https://www.nzz.ch/english/swiss-phd-students-dismissal-spot... > The writer accuses Gerber of a «racist attack on…

If I'm an employee at a company and post something like that on Twitter, nobody should be surprised if I suddenly find myself in the unemployment line because (perhaps unbeknownst to me) my company was right in the middle of closing a big deal with a Chinese company. Not saying it's morally correct, but those are the dynamics in play here. A university is an organization, and while the incentives and financial struct…

The "dynamics at play" here begins and ends with the company itself making deals with authoritarian countries. The fact the brunt of the consequences trickles down to employees or students who grew up and live in a society with free expression and independent judicial systems is merely just side effects.

I find it very difficult to point the finger at those individuals.

The amount of extrapolation being done here from a single post on social media is almost ridiculous. Not to mention communicating on personal profiles, not as some representative for the company. Context and intention matter.

This will ultimately have a wider effect on society as a whole, if organizations decide to act as proxies for countries with different value systems and people bring out pitchforks over some mindless throw-away social media content. We'll end up with the society we all choose to create.

Re: PhD student in Switzerland expelled after criticizing the CCP in Twitter

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that the CCP paid The NY Times, LA Times, and other major papers to publish propaganda pieces and not publish COVID lab leak pieces during 2020, I don't believe much of what I read when it comes to articles that could be deemed favorable to China.

“ The Daily Caller first reported the multimillion-dollar expenditures on June 8, based on an 86-page Justice Department filing dated June 1.” [0] https://dailycaller.com/2020/06/08/chinese-propaganda-china-... [1] https://efile.fara.gov/docs/3457-Amendment-20200601-2.pdf

The FARA source doesn't support your conclusion here, which leaves the Daily Caller, which is a white supremacist rag that Tucker Carlson puts out.

In other words, you have no evidence to support this.

Re: PhD student in Switzerland expelled after criticizing the CCP in Twitter

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course he doesn't, as it's complete nonsense.

Chinese mouthpiece paid US newspapers $19 mn in ads, printing: https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/chin... Please refrain from reactionary insults like calling chrissnell's comment "nonsense." It's in poor taste even if you're supported by others who don't bother to perform even cursory research.

Okay, China Daily paid for ads. Any evidence that "CCP paid The NY Times, LA Times, and other major papers to [...] not publish COVID lab leak pieces during 2020"?

Re: PhD student in Switzerland expelled after criticizing the CCP in Twitter

#88
post #10

explanation of what's going on which is, of course, way more complicated than the headline: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/oxmgg2/phd_student_...

Here's also a statement by the HSG regarding the article in the NZZ: https://www.unisg.ch/de/wissen/newsroom/aktuell/rssnews/camp... According to the statement, the student tried "to force his re-acceptance to the phd-program with legal and political means". To be honest, I'm not quite sure what to make out of the whole situation (as a Swiss, originally from the area of St. Gallen, where the school is). I would be he…

Replying to the university's claim directly:

> Der Wunsch der ehemaligen Betreuerin, sich klar zu distanzieren, ist nachvollziehbar, wenn ein Rassismus-...

"Nachvollziehbar" mag sein, wenn -- warte mal, was war das da mit dem "Rassismus"?

> ...Vorwurf im Raum steht.

Nein. Wenn was "im Raum steht" ein blosser "Vorwurf" ist, dann erwewist die ehemalige Betreuerin sich mit ihrer übereilten Distanzierung als Vollblut-Arschloch.

.

For you non-German-speakers, in (my personal translation into) English:

> The wish of the ex-advisor to clearly distance herself is understandable, when racism...

"Understandable" may be, if -- wait a minute, what was that about "racism"?

> ...has been alleged.

No. If this "racism" has only "been alleged", then the ex-advisor, in her over-eagerness to distance herself, reveals herself to be a pure-bred asshole.

Re: PhD student in Switzerland expelled after criticizing the CCP in Twitter

#89
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm an employee at a company and post something like that on Twitter, nobody should be surprised if I suddenly find myself in the unemployment line because (perhaps unbeknownst to me) my company was right in the middle of closing a big deal with a Chinese company. Not saying it's morally correct, but those are the dynamics in play here. A university is an organization, and while the incentives and financial struct…

The "dynamics at play" here begins and ends with the company itself making deals with authoritarian countries. The fact the brunt of the consequences trickles down to employees or students who grew up and live in a society with free expression and independent judicial systems is merely just side effects. I find it very difficult to point the finger at those individuals. The amount of extrapolation being done here fro…

You'll find no disagreement from me on this topic, and it's going to be fascinating to continue to live through the era of a deeply-interconnected world where the most populous country in the world is governed by an authoritarian regime.

Re: PhD student in Switzerland expelled after criticizing the CCP in Twitter

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course he doesn't, as it's complete nonsense.

Chinese mouthpiece paid US newspapers $19 mn in ads, printing: https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/chin... Please refrain from reactionary insults like calling chrissnell's comment "nonsense." It's in poor taste even if you're supported by others who don't bother to perform even cursory research.

China Daily actually paid mostly (if you actually read the FARA documents that were falsely cited above as evidence) to print copies of the China Daily for dissemination in the US. That's very clear from the documents. The advertising was a relatively minor endeavor by comparison and limited mostly to buying WaPo ads, whereas they paid a number of papers to print the China Daily.

There's no evidence at all that US papers were paid to publish "propaganda pieces".

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