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My small revenge on Apple

javierantonsblog.blogspot.com

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Re: My small revenge on Apple

#231

Post by collaborative »

user-the-name wrote: post #209
collaborative wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Apple is forcing devs to include Apple ID and that's what's wrong here. They could have made it optional. Given how Apple users can be it likely would have ended up being in demand and devs would have included it out of their free will

There is basically no benefit to app developer in including it. It is more work, and you may get only an anonymised address. However, there is massive benefit to actual users. Apple decided to prioritise users over developers here.

Trust me, I say this as a developer, if there is any indication that I am losing out on users because I don't have Apple ID, I will make sure to add it asap. That is pretty much the reason why I first included FB and Google. I first only had Google, then some people aksed for FB. The natural course would have been that then some other guys ask for Apple and I add it. But Apple decided to abuse its position and force it on us developers

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#232

Post by qwytw »

collaborative wrote: post #202
user-the-name wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is forcing users to use Sign in with Apple either.

But Apple is forcing devs to include Apple ID and that's what's wrong here. They could have made it optional. Given how Apple users can be it likely would have ended up being in demand and devs would have included it out of their free will

Well it is optional if you only have email sign up..

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#233

Post by somehnacct3757 »

I like the angle of "Sorry, Apple ID only works on Apple devices." The rest of the popup seems unprofessional and would make me reconsider using the software, out of fear for what other unprofessional things may end up happening.

But the bit I highlight is a nice jab at Apple and something I think you can get away with professionally in a web app. It mars their login brand a bit by showing that it isn't useful everywhere.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#234

Post by sleepydog »

mwexler wrote: post #221

Does "sign in with X" not lock you into X's ecosystem? That is, if I lose my Apple account or my Google account due to their judgement of my actions, have I lost access to the services I authed via those accounts? That is, if I change my email, most services allow that data to migrate to the new username. Do the "sign in with X" allow the same capabilities? (I ask from ignorance, not from sarcasm, I really don't know…

Theoretically a service could allow you to convert an externally authenticated account to one protected by a password. In practice, I haven't found any services that allow it. I've found plenty that support conversion in the other direction.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#235

Post by qwytw »

Someone wrote: post #197
CryptoBanker wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, it screams two things to me. First that the company is supremely interested in collecting my personal information beyond what I would normally expect to provide. Second that they’re just too lazy to implement their own user system. Neither is a good thing

Why would a developer spend time implementing a user system if they can use a good third-party one? If I were to write an iOS app, I likely wouldn’t. I don’t trust myself handling that kind of thing securely.

I assume most 3rd party solution still support email only logins (at least Firebase & Azure do) so I don't think that's a real problem.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#236

Post by pier25 »

kraf wrote: post #62
spinningarrow wrote: post #2

Seems a bit petty to me. As a developer I empathize with the possible lack of documentation (I don’t know, I never tried to integrate Sign In with Apple) but as a user I actually am super happy with it. Nowadays any iOS app that doesn’t support logging in with Apple makes me think twice about whether I really need the app.

Protest is an important form of participation in a democracy, it's not petty at all. Forcing developers to add Apple ID as a sign-in method is the petty thing. The developers have no power unless they unionize in some form which seems absolutely impossible. So it seems to me that it's all a developer can really do to make a statement and I think it's brave.

Apple is extremely hostile to developers. After a couple of bad experiences with the app store I simply refused to do any development for iOS.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#237

Post by leokennis »

Yeah I don't care about your personal beef with Apple.

If you make me go through hoops or hamper my enjoyment/use of your app because I am an Apple user, I am going to stop using your app.

I'm not going to stop using an iPhone or the excellent "sign in with Apple" service just so I can run your app, I will find an alternative.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#238

Post by makeitdouble »

arepublicadoceu wrote: post #90
dandellion wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens when Apple stops being on fire, and you are trapped in their ecosystem and can't get out? I won't argue that Apple makes the nicest and most comfortable golden cuffs, but in the end they're still chains.

> What happens when Apple stops being on fire, and you are trapped in their ecosystem and can't get out? I won't argue that Apple makes the nicest and most comfortable golden cuffs, but in the end they're still chains. What are the options in the smartphone landscape? Please elaborate in a way that my elderly mother could use without 24h tech support from family members. Android? And have instead of golden handcuffs…

You are the one to judge what’s right for you. Now your grandmother would probably be fine with a Pixel phone, you are the one opposing it on principle. Same as how Chromebooks work well if basic tasks are your bread and butter.

To me Apple stopped being on fire for a while now, in particular as we switched from broken keyboard laptops to wonderful ARM laptops only available in small sizes with 2 usb ports. Also on principle Apple barring third party browser engines and game streaming are two huge no-go, in continuation to the selective ban on interpreted code which almost kills the editor ecosystem. Those handcuffs are not that golden, really.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#239

Post by raxxorrax »

Jcowell wrote: post #213
raxxorrax wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it isn't a privacy feature. A privacy feature would be to create an account with a password without mail validation. I you use Apple ID, Apple gets the info which services you are using. The service might request additional infos about your person. Most people will always confirm that in reality. This way many services will end up with more user information. Many people will just share everything but might think…

Privacy , like security , has its own “threat models” and compromises depending on who you’re trying to get privacy from. So this is absolutely a privacy feature and it astonishes me that amount of people who don’t get this and try a No True Scotsman.

True, it often depends on who you trust.

My mail provider would need to parse my mails to get info about what services I use. Identity providers have those apps registered and grand token for specific services. They know exactly when a user is logging to specific services. This data doesn't even need to be evaluated further, Apple would have a neat list about the services you use.

Still, the usual mail registration offers more flexibility and gives the user more control. So, email registration is a privacy feature if you argue like this.

Security wise it is a decent solution, but also a single point of failure. It is hard to argue this to be a privacy feature. It is only one if you trust Apple more than the other services and different forms of auth isn't possible.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#240

Post by robteix »

I'm confused about the "revenge" aspect of this. Seems like you're doing what Apple is asking you to do -- implementing Apple Sign-In -- and then going the extra mile to make sure your users have a worse experience than they should otherwise have. How is that revenge on Apple?
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