> We are denied customer interaction
And that is why I am still an Apple customer. Or, 'prisoner', by author's words.
My small revenge on Apple
181–190 of 471 posts
Re: My small revenge on Apple
#182Seems a bit petty to me. As a developer I empathize with the possible lack of documentation (I don’t know, I never tried to integrate Sign In with Apple) but as a user I actually am super happy with it. Nowadays any iOS app that doesn’t support logging in with Apple makes me think twice about whether I really need the app.
I'm the opposite. I NEVER use a third party login, my it be Apple, Google, Facebook or whatnot. If your website/app doesn't offer their own independent login, I don't even think once whether I really need it.
Agreed, it screams two things to me. First that the company is supremely interested in collecting my personal information beyond what I would normally expect to provide. Second that they’re just too lazy to implement their own user system.
Neither is a good thing
Re: My small revenge on Apple
#183Similar to how in-app purchase/subscription fees of 30% just _does not work_ for certain kinds of business with certain kinds of margin, Sign in with Apple has limitations far beyond other social sign-in systems that mean it is a complete non-starter for certain businesses. Like us. We have Facebook sign in (appropriate for our market), but couldn't integrate Sign in with Apple because the email private relay limits…
> we use the email address as a fraud signal for some payment providers. I'm sorry, I understand that that is not your point, but an email address is a terrible fraud signal. Also, if anything having the email go through an Apple relay, means that the user have an iCloud account, which seem no more risky that a random Gmail account.
I agree. If you use an email address as a fraud signal, you need to seriously reevaluate your decisions. I've met a site that blocked my Gmail address as "spam" once, but another Gmail address works just fine.
In my case it was just a nickname, but using an email as fraud signal also feeds into racism. People who don't have an average white American-looking name will suddenly be flagged for fraud.
Re: My small revenge on Apple
#184Seems a bit petty to me. As a developer I empathize with the possible lack of documentation (I don’t know, I never tried to integrate Sign In with Apple) but as a user I actually am super happy with it. Nowadays any iOS app that doesn’t support logging in with Apple makes me think twice about whether I really need the app.
Petty and hysterical. The part where the developer puts the word 'privacy' in scare quotes is a bit of a red flag for me. Suggesting that "accept[ing] two "social logins": Google and Facebook. All was well." does not fill me with confidence that the developer respects privacy concerns.
The reason "privacy" is in quotes is that some of us have started seeing through what Apple really means every time they use the word. As the EU's Executive Vice-President Margrethe Vestager has recently said regarding their Apple probe, privacy can't be an excuse to stifle competition.
https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/07/02/eu-antitrust-head...
All was well because nobody was forcing me (the developer) to include anything I didn't want. Users could still use traditional email signup. You are free to choose whom you trust. If your choice is Apple, well, that is your choice
Re: My small revenge on Apple
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
You’ve got to be kidding. Don’t use apple SSO because apple might not exist one day? You may as well argue not signup to anything using gmail because, heck, google might go out of business. There is no benefit to users in giving your “real” details to service providers; the benefit is entirely on their side. You can argue that Apple is harming the opportunities for 3rd party developers, sure, taking advantage of them…
> Don’t use apple SSO because apple might not exist one day? Yes. And more to the point, because that Apple service may not exist in the future. Or Apple may determine that a particular app or service can no longer use its service for whatever reason, and you as a user will not have any choice in that manner. It's all been done before.
And it makes me think : what happens to the "proxy emails" affected to your application when Apple decides to ban your app from the App Store ? Are your users still reachable ? Is there any information on this ?
Given an alternative storyline where Epic Games allowed users to create account with relayed apple mails, wouldn't all those accounts suddenly became unusable today ?
Re: My small revenge on Apple
#186Apple really has locked down its ecosystem. It’s kinda depressing that there isn’t more choice and competition in the mobile space. Your choices are Android and apple.
On the contrary. Starting from the release of the original iPhone SDK in 2008, developers gained more capabilities and app entitlements than they lost.
Re: My small revenge on Apple
#187Similar to how in-app purchase/subscription fees of 30% just _does not work_ for certain kinds of business with certain kinds of margin, Sign in with Apple has limitations far beyond other social sign-in systems that mean it is a complete non-starter for certain businesses. Like us. We have Facebook sign in (appropriate for our market), but couldn't integrate Sign in with Apple because the email private relay limits…
> we use the email address as a fraud signal for some payment providers. I'm sorry, I understand that that is not your point, but an email address is a terrible fraud signal. Also, if anything having the email go through an Apple relay, means that the user have an iCloud account, which seem no more risky that a random Gmail account.
I'm over-simplifying "fraud signal" here, but it's a component of one of our payment provider's signal, mostly around "friendly fraud" where people might just have lots of overdue payments or not be responding to payment requests. It's less about signal about addresses and more about the same address being re-used on multiple stores.
Edit: being super clear...
The payment method is a pay-later service, it's literally a loan. The email is used to look up to see if the person has paid their loan balances off late before and other factors like that. "Fraud" was probably the wrong term to use here.
Re: My small revenge on Apple
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
From your post I get that you don’t particularly care about the users who use you it app as you are not offering any way to transition users. I think apple cares about their users and platform, they just care about your passion project and I can understand how that triggers you. But the users belong to the apple ecosystem. You are essentially a guest there and more importantly the user has a choice to privacy. Most o…
> You are essentially a guest there More like a prisoner, rather. As an Apple user, I would like to be treated as the owner of a device I have paid for - not like a "guest" or as a "prisoner".
> As an Apple user
GP was referring to developers as guests, I believe, not to users.
Re: My small revenge on Apple
#189So the creator/developer of "The King of Organigrams and Family Trees" (that's the title of the app's website ( https://www.groupsapp.online )) is complaining that Apple is giving its users the ability to hide their email information, am I right? So isn't this a good thing? For me, it is. I don't want to give away my actual email address. I get too much spam already. So I thank Apple for this feature. And of course,…
Frankly, I couldn't care less about whether you trust the app or not The fact is, I send 0 emails and privacy and security are top priorities. I am passionate about E2E encryption so I have integrated loads of that in the app too The only purpose an email address serves is password recovery. Period TBH I am a bit tired of people trusting big tech so much. They are businesses, meant to make money. I make no money and…
> The only purpose an email address serves is password recovery. Period
And you can still do that with Apple's email relay. So I fail to see where's the problem.