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My small revenge on Apple

javierantonsblog.blogspot.com

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Re: My small revenge on Apple

#161

Post by fmajid »

karlkloss wrote: post #71
spinningarrow wrote: post #2

Seems a bit petty to me. As a developer I empathize with the possible lack of documentation (I don’t know, I never tried to integrate Sign In with Apple) but as a user I actually am super happy with it. Nowadays any iOS app that doesn’t support logging in with Apple makes me think twice about whether I really need the app.

I'm the opposite. I NEVER use a third party login, my it be Apple, Google, Facebook or whatnot. If your website/app doesn't offer their own independent login, I don't even think once whether I really need it.

Agreed. I find the mere sight of the Facebook or Google logo off-putting and resent the implication that it is a higher-priority login mechanism than email, a sort of act of fealty of the app/web developer to the big platform middlemen.

I run my own mail server so it's easy for me to implement vendor-specific email addresses that cannot be correlated with other vendors', but more and more companies are offering that as a service nowadays, DuckDuckGo most recently:

https://www.spreadprivacy.com/introducing-email-protection-b...

I do use GitHub federated login, but only for apps like vulnerability scanners that do need OAuth access to my repos.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#162

Post by fmajid »

pjerem wrote: post #42
dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nowadays any iOS app that doesn’t support logging in with Apple makes me think twice about whether I really need the app. I agree. I only create accounts for things reluctantly. Because 1. Why do you want my email address, or DOB, or whatever else? I don't want your marketing, and 2. I can't be bothered, I downloaded your app because I have something I want to get done.

> Why do you want my email address Because Apple's SSO will not be eternal and nobody wants to have a tier as a proxy on an important account credential. Apple SSO is ok for throwaway account where your account has no "sentimental value" that you can't recreate easily. But the author of this post maintains a social network : nobody wants to be locked out a social network. I have active accounts on websites that exist…

Don't forget in your threat model that Apple can cancel your account at any time for any reason whatsoever. They've even done it to security researchers using Apple's own bug bounty program. If that happens, you are stranded with those accounts effectively inaccessible to you forever.

https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/04/20/man-sues-apple-fo...

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#163

Post by fmajid »

wokwokwok wrote: post #50
pjerem wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you want my email address Because Apple's SSO will not be eternal and nobody wants to have a tier as a proxy on an important account credential. Apple SSO is ok for throwaway account where your account has no "sentimental value" that you can't recreate easily. But the author of this post maintains a social network : nobody wants to be locked out a social network. I have active accounts on websites that exist…

You’ve got to be kidding. Don’t use apple SSO because apple might not exist one day? You may as well argue not signup to anything using gmail because, heck, google might go out of business. There is no benefit to users in giving your “real” details to service providers; the benefit is entirely on their side. You can argue that Apple is harming the opportunities for 3rd party developers, sure, taking advantage of them…

Apple is not going anywhere, but they can terminate your account on a whim:

https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/04/20/man-sues-apple-fo...

So has Google, and presumably the other platforms as well.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#164

Post by collaborative »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #74
salimmahboubi wrote: post #20

While other comments see this as petty. I see it as justified, big tech knows no limit. Independent app developers are making less and less

Yeah, shame on Apple for protecting their user’s privacy. So evil of them to not allow 3rd party developers to harvest user’s e-mail addresses for no reason whatsoever.

No reason whatsoever != password recovery

At the end of the day you've made your choice. You believe the reason Apple does this is to protect your privacy. You can't see that they want to close you in and make sure they are the only contact you ever have with anyone. This is to get your $. You're in fact paying a premium because they artificially inflate the price of every software you buy (think fees)

I don't "harvest" (fancy word) emails for anything other than basic password recovery, but just so you know, spam filters are pretty good these days

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#165

Post by ksec »

mnw21cam wrote: post #145
downvote_korok wrote: post #143

off-topic:- We use only SMS. Our family owns a grocery chain in NorthEast India, Last I built a ecommerce app where only login method is through SMS (OTP). Initially we thought this will be very bad. But now we have a significant amount of revenue coming from the app (Native and Web). In india most of the Govt and Private apps use only SMS as login method.

Beware. SMS is not secure.

But it is the only method where people understand and use. And social engineering / account take over from MNO are something that is non-existent in many countries.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#166

Post by nyuszika7h »

kraf wrote: post #62
spinningarrow wrote: post #2

Seems a bit petty to me. As a developer I empathize with the possible lack of documentation (I don’t know, I never tried to integrate Sign In with Apple) but as a user I actually am super happy with it. Nowadays any iOS app that doesn’t support logging in with Apple makes me think twice about whether I really need the app.

Protest is an important form of participation in a democracy, it's not petty at all. Forcing developers to add Apple ID as a sign-in method is the petty thing. The developers have no power unless they unionize in some form which seems absolutely impossible. So it seems to me that it's all a developer can really do to make a statement and I think it's brave.

Nobody is forced to add Apple ID login if they don't have any other social logins. Personally I stick to direct signup but if I were forced to do social login, Sign in with Apple would be my first preference as it's the most privacy-preserving compared to Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#167

Post by Redoubts »

dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #155
gowld wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if my email address stops getting mail for one or another reason?

Then it loses marketing value and data hungry companies no longer care

The point is Apple relay goes under is the same risk as gmail goes under.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#168

Post by nyuszika7h »

collaborative wrote: post #135
user-the-name wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not "petty", it is a way to ensure all users get access to a privacy-conscious method of logging in without giving up your privacy to Google or Facebook. Being this angry at having to give users the option of better privacy really isn't a great look.

No one is forcing users to use Google or FB. They can do traditional email signup

That is definitely not true for every app. There was never any clause in the App Store guidelines that you must provide traditional email signup. At least this way, the social-only apps will be forced to provide you a more privacy-preserving alternative, and for ones that don't use social logins anyway, nothing changes.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#169

Post by fmajid »

Toutouxc wrote: post #45
bloniac wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They all got beaten because Apple and google thrashed them in all the ways that mattered.

Actually Windows Phone was pretty much killed by Microsoft's lack of marketing, developer incentives and general incompetence, the OSes (7 and 8 mainly, 10 was weird) were incredibly smooth, fast and well designed. For a short while (in between most popular apps gaining WP support and then dropping it) it was IMO the best mobile experience available. You could get a dirt-cheap low-end phone like the Lumia 520 and it…

My father wanted a smartphone but didn't want to pay Apple premiums, so I told him to get a Windows Phone because they guaranteed software updates, unlike Android's dismal situation.

He was very happy with it, then it was EOL-ed and WhatsApp stopped working on it (I consider that a feature, not a bug, but for some odd reason he disagrees). So I set him up with a LineageOS Pocophone F1. He still misses the simplicity of the Windows Phone UI, though.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#170

Post by Redoubts »

fmajid wrote: post #162
pjerem wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you want my email address Because Apple's SSO will not be eternal and nobody wants to have a tier as a proxy on an important account credential. Apple SSO is ok for throwaway account where your account has no "sentimental value" that you can't recreate easily. But the author of this post maintains a social network : nobody wants to be locked out a social network. I have active accounts on websites that exist…

Don't forget in your threat model that Apple can cancel your account at any time for any reason whatsoever. They've even done it to security researchers using Apple's own bug bounty program. If that happens, you are stranded with those accounts effectively inaccessible to you forever. https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/04/20/man-sues-apple-fo...

How does this threat model compare to using gmail or hotmail for your account access?
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