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South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

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Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#411

Post by relativ575 »

throw37388 wrote: post #408
spothedog1 wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean like NYC? Literally the city built on large scale immigration? Also the state of California. Houston, Texas is the most diverse city in the country and you can buy a house for less than the national average. There are hundreds of millions of people in the US who own homes and raise families on entry level jobs, the just don't live in high cost of living areas. That's not to say their lives are all perfect…

》but take a walk around pretty much any American urban metro area and it’s working amazingly well. I choosed SF bcos you wrote this. NY etc have similar problem. Modern US cities are not capable to accept and absorb large scale immigration of people who are not already integrated into society. People who do not speak local language and have very different culture. Martial law was suggested as a way to force homeless…

Why didn't you try to look at some numbers? If anything, immigration to the US has accelerated in the last 50 years. 4.7 percent of the population were immigrants in 1970. The number increased to 13.7 percent in 2019.

"Since 1970, the share and number of immigrants have increased rapidly, mainly because of large-scale immigration from Latin America and Asia. The vast diversification of immigration flows was ushered in by important shifts in U.S. immigration law (including the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 which abolished national-origin admission quotas; the creation of a formal refugee resettlement program with the Refugee Act of 1980; and the Cold War-era grant of preferential treatment to Cuban immigrants); the United States’ growing economic and military presence in Asia and Latin America; economic ties, social linkages, and deep migration history between the United States and its southern neighbors; and major economic transformations and political instability in countries around the world." - [0]

People from Asia and Latin America, those who contribute the majority of the boom in migration since 1970s, are those by default don't speak English natively and have distinct culture. 22 percent American spoke a language other than English at home.

> Modern US cities are not capable to accept and absorb large scale immigration of people who are not already integrated into society. People who do not speak local language and have very different culture.

Incorrect. As of 2018, 20% of NYC residents are naturalized citizens (born abroad), 10.9% are legal and 6.3% are undocumented immigrants. [1]

[0] - https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested...

[1] - https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/immigrants/downloads/pdf/moia_an...

Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#412

Post by oblio »

int_19h wrote: post #378
oblio wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, many countries have cultures based on opposition. There's a reason most national days are celebrations of an independence war. So for many of these countries you're asking for a lobotomy.

It's long overdue for humanity to ditch the dangerous baggage that is Romantic nationalism.

Good luck with that!

We're also not great at scaling trust.

Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#413

Post by bialpio »

legolas2412 wrote: post #396
bialpio wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"30 years" is factually incorrect. The requirement is to be a permanent resident for 5 years (I can find links if needed). Source: I'm currently awaiting my naturalization appointment, if all goes well the total time from setting my foot in the US to becoming a citizen will be few months short of 9 years (~2.5 years on work visa & 5 years on green card + ~1.5 years wait for naturalization appointment).

That may be true for you or the Greek person here. Not for indians, Chinese, and Mexican.

Only one category ("married children of US citizens"), only for Mexicans, comes close enough to ~30 years total time (~24 years waiting to become LPR, +5 years being an LPR in USA) to consider the "30 years" as valid IMO. The fact still remains that the requirement for citizenship is to be a LPR for 5 years (this is the upper bound, there are cases where less is possible), it is the LPR part that may take time, as I've already mentioned in a reply to my comment. For China and India the total times are closer to 15-20 years. All of this is for family-based immigration, which I'd expect to be generally less interesting as it requires people to already have a fairly close family member who is a US citizen.

Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#414

Post by skhr0680 »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #249
calmd wrote: post #7

SK is committing demographic suicide though, so whatever you think of its success, it has a pretty fatal disease. It has the lowest birthrate in the world. This is going to cause significant economic problems quite soon, or they will have to open up massive immigration which will completely change the country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_birth_rate_in_South_Korea How does the developed world pull out of this ty…

> This is going to cause significant economic problems quite soon, or they will have to open up massive immigration which will completely change the country. They'll have to unite with North Korea eventually. Make of that what you will.

> They'll have to unite with North Korea eventually. Make of that what you will.

I don't know. United Germany was still within living memory when reunification happened, and it cost a huge amount to integrate East Germany, even though they had a functional society and industry. For example, Zeiss Jena (East German) camera lenses were competitive with those from the west. That would be like North Korea making good phones in the modern day.

Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#415

Post by skhr0680 »

Clewza313 wrote: post #28
nwienert wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s no problem with low birth rates, this is a meme that is told by a few economists and yet a very slight depopulation is not only survivable but has upsides as well and so far both South Korea and Japan (for going on three decades) have maintained incredibly competitive across nearly all metrics, certainly far better off than the US in so many ways. I got in an extensive debate over this with statistics a few m…

There is no problem with low birth rates in the long term. There are, however, massive problems during the many decades when the population pyramid is inverted and there are 4 or 5 retirees for every child, a ratio which Japan is about to hit and where South Korea will be in a couple of decades as well. As for why this is a problem, Japan's pension system is already insolvent and the country is starting to experience…

> Sometime last year Japan passed the point where the amount of money & effort needed to maintain existing infrastructure exceeded the country's capability to build it

Can you share where you found that? I'd like to read more about it

> and the depopulation and dilapidation of Japan's second/third tier cities and the countryside is already striking and poised to accelerate rapidly as villages, towns and cities can no longer fund their basic obligations.

Isn't that a worldwide phenomenon though? Podunk towns can't keep their young people around because there is nothing for them to do and within in a generation or two they fade away. It's sad, but is there even a reason to save those towns?

Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#416

Post by otabdeveloper4 »

skhr0680 wrote: post #414
otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is going to cause significant economic problems quite soon, or they will have to open up massive immigration which will completely change the country. They'll have to unite with North Korea eventually. Make of that what you will.

> They'll have to unite with North Korea eventually. Make of that what you will. I don't know. United Germany was still within living memory when reunification happened, and it cost a huge amount to integrate East Germany, even though they had a functional society and industry. For example, Zeiss Jena (East German) camera lenses were competitive with those from the west. That would be like North Korea making good pho…

I think consumers are more valuable for GDP than industry today.

Also, there are non-economic factors at play, too. For example, South Korea could grandfather in North Korea's nuclear arms.

Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#417

Post by ilammy »

cheriot wrote: post #246
csomar wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Immigration has become an issue lately because a human (or a bare-human) is worth much less. 1.000 years ago a bare illiterate human had some considerable value. He could work in the field or he could fight. More humans, more food and production. More humans, more manpower to fight your enemies. Now a bare semi-educated human is a liability. Which is why most countries are refusing their entrance. Times h…

Every child born is a "bare illiterate human". Are you also making an argument against having children? If you want to be really draconian about it, immigration can select for people with skills where the home populate will always have the same average of innate abilities.

Children have a lifetime ahead to learn and grow, as opposed to illiterate adults who are handicapped at that since they are past their prime neurological and societal plasticity.

Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#418

Post by fleddr »

adventured wrote: post #371
fleddr wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Amsterdam is what is meant by the Netherlands. Amsterdam is basically a super old village built in a swamp that it interesting for its history, architecture, culture, and so on. Or for the red light district and weed shops, if you prefer that. It's not a display of infrastructure. The Netherlands has some of the best developed infrastructure nation-wide: roads, railways, and most famously its massive wa…

> By comparison, many parts of the US feel like a 3rd world country. That's because you're comparing small nations to a nation that is better compared to the EU in size and diversity. The EU has dozens of third-world ghetto zones and the bottom 10% of the EU is exceptionally poor by first world standards. The poorest areas of France also look like and function like the third-world, the quasi ghettos on the outskirts…

The topic was "most modern" or advanced nations, not some super vague all-round comparison like you're suggesting.

Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#419

Post by tallanvor »

ubercore wrote: post #102
eatonphil wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trains running in the subways are much newer, cleaner, and wider than the ones in NYC or Tokyo or Paris or London (based on my own observation). They also continually build out entirely new rapid lines like the Bundang express line which takes you from a suburb of Seoul to the center of Gangnam (a major district) in 15 minutes. Their buildings are also mostly new. It seems like every decade or two Koreans demolis…

I moved to Norway, been living here for about a month now. I haven't see Norwegian money even once. I think I've seen one ATM. Granted a month is not a lot of time, but it's startlingly cashless. The only annoying thing so far is that my US based Visa card just can't be processed in some places even if Visa is advertised. When I called Chase to see if it was a security thing, they said they didn't even see the charge…

Norway is definitely not cashless and there are plenty of ATMs around. That said, stores have been requesting people not use cash during covid, so that plays a big role. You can't miss the cash registers in stores, though.

If your card is a debit card, you might have to talk to the cashier about specifically setting the reader for a credit card transaction. Debit cards do run through a separate process, and your US card would fail. But keep in mind that the same thing happens with Norwegian cards in the US - debit cards need to be run as credit otherwise they'll fail.

Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#420

Post by ubercore »

tallanvor wrote: post #419
ubercore wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved to Norway, been living here for about a month now. I haven't see Norwegian money even once. I think I've seen one ATM. Granted a month is not a lot of time, but it's startlingly cashless. The only annoying thing so far is that my US based Visa card just can't be processed in some places even if Visa is advertised. When I called Chase to see if it was a security thing, they said they didn't even see the charge…

Norway is definitely not cashless and there are plenty of ATMs around. That said, stores have been requesting people not use cash during covid, so that plays a big role. You can't miss the cash registers in stores, though. If your card is a debit card, you might have to talk to the cashier about specifically setting the reader for a credit card transaction. Debit cards do run through a separate process, and your US c…

It's a Chase credit card, not a debit card. I'm sure it's different everywhere, but in the Stavanger area there aren't many ATMs, and I still don't know what cash looks like!

EDIT: To be more clear, this is coming from the US.

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