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South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

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Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#21

Post by eatonphil »

odiroot wrote: post #12
eatonphil wrote: post #2

My wife is South Korean so I'm biased. But I've been to Japan and South Korea and if you're looking for one of the most modern nations in the world, I strongly recommend you go to Korea. The only comparable country I've been to is the Netherlands or maybe Denmark. In contrast, the US and Japan seem to be somewhat falling apart with a peak in infrastructure and buildings a few decades ago. It's not that bad of course…

> My wife is South Korean so I'm biased. But I've been to Japan and South Korea and if you're looking for one of the most modern nations in the world, I strongly recommend you go to Korea. The only comparable country I've been to is the Netherlands or maybe Denmark. Have you been to Singapore?

No I have not but I agree this would probably make the list. Maybe some of the Gulf city-states too but I haven't explored them very much.

Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#22

Post by alephnan »

odiroot wrote: post #12
eatonphil wrote: post #2

My wife is South Korean so I'm biased. But I've been to Japan and South Korea and if you're looking for one of the most modern nations in the world, I strongly recommend you go to Korea. The only comparable country I've been to is the Netherlands or maybe Denmark. In contrast, the US and Japan seem to be somewhat falling apart with a peak in infrastructure and buildings a few decades ago. It's not that bad of course…

> My wife is South Korean so I'm biased. But I've been to Japan and South Korea and if you're looking for one of the most modern nations in the world, I strongly recommend you go to Korea. The only comparable country I've been to is the Netherlands or maybe Denmark. Have you been to Singapore?

Singapore has 1/10th the population of South Korea, and 1/20th the population of Japan.

Singapore has less than 1% of South Korea's land mass, which is 25% of Japan.

It's not a fair comparison on the scale of the infrastructure.

Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#23

Post by ceejayoz »

nwienert wrote: post #8
calmd wrote: post #7

SK is committing demographic suicide though, so whatever you think of its success, it has a pretty fatal disease. It has the lowest birthrate in the world. This is going to cause significant economic problems quite soon, or they will have to open up massive immigration which will completely change the country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_birth_rate_in_South_Korea How does the developed world pull out of this ty…

There’s no problem with low birth rates, this is a meme that is told by a few economists and yet a very slight depopulation is not only survivable but has upsides as well and so far both South Korea and Japan (for going on three decades) have maintained incredibly competitive across nearly all metrics, certainly far better off than the US in so many ways. I got in an extensive debate over this with statistics a few m…

It's another offshoot of the "growth at all costs!" mentality you see in Wall Street and governments.

Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#24

Post by ekianjo »

alephnan wrote: post #5
totoglazer wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having visited all the countries mentioned within the last few years - definitely agree. Seoul is an incredible, modern city, unlike any other. Tokyo largely feels like it was frozen in time. Parts of Amsterdam have that sort of feel, but it’s definitely more mixed. Not crumbling, but old and making do since it’s fine.

> Tokyo largely feels like it was frozen in time. Economically, Japan has been in stagnation since the late 80s.

> stagnating

That's a nice way to put it, it's been actually decreasing clearly over time since 1989, with ups and downs on the way: https://mebfaber.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/japan.jpg

Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#25

Post by eatonphil »

someperson wrote: post #17
eatonphil wrote: post #2

My wife is South Korean so I'm biased. But I've been to Japan and South Korea and if you're looking for one of the most modern nations in the world, I strongly recommend you go to Korea. The only comparable country I've been to is the Netherlands or maybe Denmark. In contrast, the US and Japan seem to be somewhat falling apart with a peak in infrastructure and buildings a few decades ago. It's not that bad of course…

South Korea, Taiwan, and China all developed their infrastructure relatively recently, so it makes sense that their skyscrapers and subway systems are gleaming. Fast forward 50 years (once the demographic collapse has fully hit Asia and Europe), and we'll see if their infrastructure continues to be so modern.

Yes but compared to Japan? All of Asia started from scratch after WW2 and Korea was only 10 years behind Japan due to their war.

But Tokyo infrastructure felt basically as old as NYC infrastructure to me (a totally qualitative impression).

That said, Tokyo is massively cleaner and nicer than NYC even if some of the infrastructure seems old. There is no question it is nicer than NYC.

Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#26

Post by calmd »

nwienert wrote: post #8
calmd wrote: post #7

SK is committing demographic suicide though, so whatever you think of its success, it has a pretty fatal disease. It has the lowest birthrate in the world. This is going to cause significant economic problems quite soon, or they will have to open up massive immigration which will completely change the country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_birth_rate_in_South_Korea How does the developed world pull out of this ty…

There’s no problem with low birth rates, this is a meme that is told by a few economists and yet a very slight depopulation is not only survivable but has upsides as well and so far both South Korea and Japan (for going on three decades) have maintained incredibly competitive across nearly all metrics, certainly far better off than the US in so many ways. I got in an extensive debate over this with statistics a few m…

Let's take that at face value.

If shrinking populations are okay, what is the desired population level? Right now no country seems to be able to stop this decrease in the modern/developed world. We are just currently shrinking.

Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#27

Post by epicureanideal »

eatonphil wrote: post #18
alephnan wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> South Korea has plenty of problems, social Social problems to what cultural viewpoint?

"Hell Joseon" is one I can think of. The idea is that it's too expensive and competitive to have kids and a successful career/life anymore. It seems (from my totally naive outsider view) that a lot of young Koreans feel very depressed about their options.

So, like the San Francisco Bay Area...

Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#28

Post by Clewza313 »

nwienert wrote: post #8
calmd wrote: post #7

SK is committing demographic suicide though, so whatever you think of its success, it has a pretty fatal disease. It has the lowest birthrate in the world. This is going to cause significant economic problems quite soon, or they will have to open up massive immigration which will completely change the country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_birth_rate_in_South_Korea How does the developed world pull out of this ty…

There’s no problem with low birth rates, this is a meme that is told by a few economists and yet a very slight depopulation is not only survivable but has upsides as well and so far both South Korea and Japan (for going on three decades) have maintained incredibly competitive across nearly all metrics, certainly far better off than the US in so many ways. I got in an extensive debate over this with statistics a few m…

There is no problem with low birth rates in the long term. There are, however, massive problems during the many decades when the population pyramid is inverted and there are 4 or 5 retirees for every child, a ratio which Japan is about to hit and where South Korea will be in a couple of decades as well.

As for why this is a problem, Japan's pension system is already insolvent and the country is starting to experience massive manpower shortages in sectors like nursing, agriculture and construction. Sometime last year Japan passed the point where the amount of money & effort needed to maintain existing infrastructure exceeded the country's capability to build it, and the depopulation and dilapidation of Japan's second/third tier cities and the countryside is already striking and poised to accelerate rapidly as villages, towns and cities can no longer fund their basic obligations.

Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#29

Post by eatonphil »

alephnan wrote: post #22
odiroot wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My wife is South Korean so I'm biased. But I've been to Japan and South Korea and if you're looking for one of the most modern nations in the world, I strongly recommend you go to Korea. The only comparable country I've been to is the Netherlands or maybe Denmark. Have you been to Singapore?

Singapore has 1/10th the population of South Korea, and 1/20th the population of Japan. Singapore has less than 1% of South Korea's land mass, which is 25% of Japan. It's not a fair comparison on the scale of the infrastructure.

To be fair the Netherlands and Denmark are pretty small too.

Re: South Korea: The only middle power of its kind

#30

Post by CrimpCity »

nwienert wrote: post #8
calmd wrote: post #7

SK is committing demographic suicide though, so whatever you think of its success, it has a pretty fatal disease. It has the lowest birthrate in the world. This is going to cause significant economic problems quite soon, or they will have to open up massive immigration which will completely change the country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_birth_rate_in_South_Korea How does the developed world pull out of this ty…

There’s no problem with low birth rates, this is a meme that is told by a few economists and yet a very slight depopulation is not only survivable but has upsides as well and so far both South Korea and Japan (for going on three decades) have maintained incredibly competitive across nearly all metrics, certainly far better off than the US in so many ways. I got in an extensive debate over this with statistics a few m…

Can you link to your previous thread?

I’m just curious if you considered military concerns since war is a young man’s game as they say.

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