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My small revenge on Apple

javierantonsblog.blogspot.com

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Re: My small revenge on Apple

#91

Post by webmobdev »

spinningarrow wrote: post #2

Seems a bit petty to me. As a developer I empathize with the possible lack of documentation (I don’t know, I never tried to integrate Sign In with Apple) but as a user I actually am super happy with it. Nowadays any iOS app that doesn’t support logging in with Apple makes me think twice about whether I really need the app.

No, not at all petty. Kudos to the developer for standing up to the bullies that Apple and Google (and other tech companies) often are. Apple really needs to be reminded harshly that it is the developers that add value to their platform. And to share another perspective, I never use login from another service as it means you are sharing more data with them, and you become hostage to their whims and fancies they call their "terms and conditions". So if one day they don't like the app / service you have been using for whatever reason, they can bar you from logging into it without giving you any choice for it.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#92

Post by raxxorrax »

karlkloss wrote: post #71
spinningarrow wrote: post #2

Seems a bit petty to me. As a developer I empathize with the possible lack of documentation (I don’t know, I never tried to integrate Sign In with Apple) but as a user I actually am super happy with it. Nowadays any iOS app that doesn’t support logging in with Apple makes me think twice about whether I really need the app.

I'm the opposite. I NEVER use a third party login, my it be Apple, Google, Facebook or whatnot. If your website/app doesn't offer their own independent login, I don't even think once whether I really need it.

I use them as a developer to offer it to users, not Apple though and not for apps.

But I wouldn't want any of those companies know which services I use. I am fine with using Auth0 or other third party providers, but only if I have to.

You don't even need to verify the mail in my cases, you could even use a completely fictious one. Clean, easy, anonymous.

Not really sure about smartphone hell, but most identity providers offer up the mail of the user anyway. Maybe that is different in phoneland though.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#93

Post by sylens »

microtonal wrote: post #48
bloniac wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They all got beaten because Apple and google thrashed them in all the ways that mattered.

And they trashed themselves. Microsoft was late to the party, but Windows Phone 7 was genuinely innovative and good. Unfortunately, when WP7 started to get some traction, they reset the entire ecosystem with Windows Phone 8, which could not be installed on existing Windows Phone devices. And Windows Phone 8 applications could not be installed on Windows Phone 7.

That is still one of the most mind boggling decisions I've seen. You launch a new smartphone platform to compete with two rivals that already have a head start, and then you intentionally wipe away all your progress so you can start even further behind again. Any interest in it evaporated overnight

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#94

Post by dnh44 »

throwaway4good wrote: post #34
throwaway4good wrote: post #28

I think this is silly and doesn’t make the developer / product look good. Instead of yelling angrily at the clouds, maybe focus on copy writing and graphical layout, if you want your product to go further.

On second thought - given this is on top of hn - is this some sort of guerilla marketing? If so, more power to you.

The tech community has loved operating system flamewars since at least the usenet days. This blog post serves as pretty good bait to draw in contestants so I assume that people wanting to engage have upvoted it.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#95

Post by user-the-name »

tzfld wrote: post #60

Time to admit, tech giants don't want any further important players in the field than those large ones existing today. Probably will never see a Netflix or Facebook banned from different ecosystems/app stores but if you are a medium/smaller or even a larger one you are seen as a threat.

None of this makes any sense. All players, big and small, are required to follow App Store rules. Those rules say that if you offer third-party sign in, you have to also offer Sign in with Apple. Nothing to do with how big or small you are, and nothing to do with being seen as a threat.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#96

Post by pjerem »

martimarkov wrote: post #66
pjerem wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you want my email address Because Apple's SSO will not be eternal and nobody wants to have a tier as a proxy on an important account credential. Apple SSO is ok for throwaway account where your account has no "sentimental value" that you can't recreate easily. But the author of this post maintains a social network : nobody wants to be locked out a social network. I have active accounts on websites that exist…

Sign In with Apple allows you to share your email so you are incorrect. If I decide to hide my email and be locked out - my choice. Developers and companies are greedy for data. Why do we have the expectation that emails should be shared? I constantly say don’t send me marketing and some services send. On my part I report them as spam every time so that algos start blocking them as they are breaking our contract and…

> Also if they ever get locked out from their oauth account they can use the email to create a password and login via the normal way.

This is exactly my point ! You can't recover your account if you don't know the mail used for registration. Even if you remembered it, no check could be made if Apple stopped to proxy the mails for one or another reason.

With other providers, you could always recover an account because your email address would let you prove the ownership of the account.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#97

Post by collaborative »

schipplock wrote: post #78

So the creator/developer of "The King of Organigrams and Family Trees" (that's the title of the app's website ( https://www.groupsapp.online )) is complaining that Apple is giving its users the ability to hide their email information, am I right? So isn't this a good thing? For me, it is. I don't want to give away my actual email address. I get too much spam already. So I thank Apple for this feature. And of course,…

Frankly, I couldn't care less about whether you trust the app or not

The fact is, I send 0 emails and privacy and security are top priorities. I am passionate about E2E encryption so I have integrated loads of that in the app too

The only purpose an email address serves is password recovery. Period

TBH I am a bit tired of people trusting big tech so much. They are businesses, meant to make money. I make no money and don't intend to cash out because I am passionate about what I do. It's so frustrating to see how people blindly favor big tech

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#98

Post by raxxorrax »

shellac wrote: post #41
spinningarrow wrote: post #2

Seems a bit petty to me. As a developer I empathize with the possible lack of documentation (I don’t know, I never tried to integrate Sign In with Apple) but as a user I actually am super happy with it. Nowadays any iOS app that doesn’t support logging in with Apple makes me think twice about whether I really need the app.

Petty and hysterical. The part where the developer puts the word 'privacy' in scare quotes is a bit of a red flag for me. Suggesting that "accept[ing] two "social logins": Google and Facebook. All was well." does not fill me with confidence that the developer respects privacy concerns.

These login methods are the least privacy preserving methods to do a login. The identity provider instantly knows which services you use.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#99

Post by zapzupnz »

hoseja wrote: post #83
Aaargh20318 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Apple prioritizes their customers over developers. If they didn’t force developers to adopt this, they would never do it as it’s in their interest to harvest the e-mail addresses of their customers.

Why then should Apple have monopoly on harvesting emails?

If you have an Apple ID, you’re already implicitly trusting Apple to use that data appropriately. Apple doesn’t sell its user data.

So anybody who is using Sign In with Apple trusts Apple to do the right thing.

Besides, what monopoly? Apple is perfectly happy with other single sign ons — provided you also offer Sign In With Apple.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#100

Post by jay_kyburz »

martimarkov wrote: post #66
pjerem wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you want my email address Because Apple's SSO will not be eternal and nobody wants to have a tier as a proxy on an important account credential. Apple SSO is ok for throwaway account where your account has no "sentimental value" that you can't recreate easily. But the author of this post maintains a social network : nobody wants to be locked out a social network. I have active accounts on websites that exist…

Sign In with Apple allows you to share your email so you are incorrect. If I decide to hide my email and be locked out - my choice. Developers and companies are greedy for data. Why do we have the expectation that emails should be shared? I constantly say don’t send me marketing and some services send. On my part I report them as spam every time so that algos start blocking them as they are breaking our contract and…

I was under the impression that the Apple email that you get is not a real email address with an inbox? Is it? How can you verify a user the real owner of the email?

If they are locked out of the oauth account, presumably they can't check their inbox.

edit: Oh, do you mean you ask for an email address after they already flow through the oauth process - because that's the worst of all :)

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