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SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

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Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#401
post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling Werner von Braun an immigrant is a funny thing to do. Immigrants tend to have some choice in the matter. Von Braun and his band of rocket experts were given a pretty stark choice, surrender to the Russians or surrender to the Americans, they chose the latter. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip In a more just world they would have stood trial in Nuremberg.

But they did have a choice and they did choose. Just NOT the USSR, just like all those countless other people over the years all choosing similarly for some crazy reason…

Their first choice was apparently to join and serve the Nazis, the USA was their second choice when that one didn't quite pan out as expected.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing to rebut. Financially and ecologically this is not worse than manufacturing products in China and shipping them all over the world, or usual stuff like tourism, cloud computing etc. I would argue that Starship is even more ecological than the other rockets, as it requires a cleaner fuel than Falcon (methane vs kerosene) and should be fully reusable (i.e. no tossing the rocket in the ocean and hoping…

> There is nothing to rebut. And yet nothing in any response so far counters my claim that capital expenditure on space projects will likely increase exponentially. The only claim I made, and the one I was downvoted for. > I would argue that Starship is even more ecological than the other rockets Methalox combusts to CO2. As the burgeoning space industry scales up exponentially, so will the emissions. https://everyda…

> It seems we need to find a completely new means of propulsion (or offsetting with carbon capture) before we could have a green space industry.

Space elevators would be a cool solution, but they are in the realm of science fiction for now. So deploying at least some carbon capture solutions before space industry begins to scale actively is a good idea

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is nothing to rebut. And yet nothing in any response so far counters my claim that capital expenditure on space projects will likely increase exponentially. The only claim I made, and the one I was downvoted for. > I would argue that Starship is even more ecological than the other rockets Methalox combusts to CO2. As the burgeoning space industry scales up exponentially, so will the emissions. https://everyda…

> Methalox combusts to CO2. As the burgeoning space industry scales up exponentially, so will the emissions. Methane can be manufactured to be carbon neutral. The cost is prohibitive for everyday on the ground energy use but not so for rocket launches, since fuel is such a tiny portion of the cost of a flight. Musk has mentioned the possibility of doing this.

They need to figure out ISRU for Starship methane refueling on Mars, but I don't think it will be ready for the cargo launches. Probably can expect it to be deployed before the first Mars crew launches though

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#404
post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they did have a choice and they did choose. Just NOT the USSR, just like all those countless other people over the years all choosing similarly for some crazy reason…

Their first choice was apparently to join and serve the Nazis, the USA was their second choice when that one didn't quite pan out as expected.

They were evil, not stupid.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is nothing to rebut. And yet nothing in any response so far counters my claim that capital expenditure on space projects will likely increase exponentially. The only claim I made, and the one I was downvoted for. > I would argue that Starship is even more ecological than the other rockets Methalox combusts to CO2. As the burgeoning space industry scales up exponentially, so will the emissions. https://everyda…

> Methalox combusts to CO2. As the burgeoning space industry scales up exponentially, so will the emissions. Methane can be manufactured to be carbon neutral. The cost is prohibitive for everyday on the ground energy use but not so for rocket launches, since fuel is such a tiny portion of the cost of a flight. Musk has mentioned the possibility of doing this.

It's a much better outcome, but remains to be seen whether it goes beyond a talking point and can scale to meet future demand. Also, depositing GHGs like water vapor and CO2 in the upper atmosphere is a somewhat worse proposition than ground level emissions

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Nuclear fusion is a more likely answer to spaceflight and Earth's clean energy problem. Considering we don't even have fission rockets or airplanes in normal use, making a fusion powerplant that is light enough to get off the ground seems very far fetched. Even if we eventually use fusion for travel beyond earth orbit, I'd bet chemical rockets would still be in use. Don't we already have thrusters that are useful in…

For those interested: As absurd as it sounds nuclear powered aircraft engines are a thing.[1] They have also been proposed for spacecraft, Scott Manley does a great video talking about nuclear rocket engines[2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pluto [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvZjhWE-3zM

[deleted]

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and is, oddly enough, coming back to the US. There's a semiconductor fab opening in Austin courtesy of Samsung, and a semi fab in arizona courtesy of TSMC. I guess they are taking advantage of labor and technical expertise due to intel's chandler site?

> I guess they are taking advantage of labor and technical expertise due to intel's chandler site? Or geopolitical concerns.

Well yeah but there are 50 United States, they picked that one.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#408
post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> SpaceX is doing it’s thing for a few billion a year One can project from SpaceX's launch history that as the commercialization of space intensifies, this figure is going to continue to grow exponentially https://www.spacexstats.xyz/#launchhistory-per-year

So your argument is... we should limit the money we spend on commercial space flight, because the current trend is exponential growth, and if that continues without leveling off, then space flight will require greater and greater resources, eventually drawing from other, more worthy projects? Did I get that right? First of all, just because the trend is exponential now doesn't mean it always will be. That's silly. Se…

> So your argument is...

Well, I made no such argument, the GGP did, and I'll quote:

> Look at the numbers. SpaceX is doing it’s thing for a few billion a year. That’s chump change compared to the money being spent on, let’s say professional basketball.

... but I think if the poster wants to make the argument about relative costs they should at least make a fair assessment.

> First of all, just because the trend is exponential now doesn't mean it always will be. That's silly.

Silly why? Silly as the amount of processors that are sold every year?[0] How would a 'wealth creating' technology reaching economies of scale with a variety of use-cases not continue to grow? It is possible there's some sort of saturation point... but I can only see space industry as something that will spur it's own demand by creating industries that never existed before.

[0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/266973/global-semiconduc...

> Second of all, the number of launches may be increasing at that rate because the launches have been made exponentially cheaper - why don't we look at % of GDP being put into space flight? I bet it would be flat or trending down.

And I was wondering if someone would make this argument, because it is flawed. Even if costs do 'reduce exponentially' they are reducing towards a lower limit, not to zero. At some point the cost reductions per year will start to become insignificant, much in the same way that regular flight isn't becoming exponentially more economical every year. So after the low-hanging fruit has been tackled (e.g., rocket re-use, mass production), the number of launches will correlate pretty well with costs, especially now that a whole bunch of use cases now become profitable.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#409
post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their first choice was apparently to join and serve the Nazis, the USA was their second choice when that one didn't quite pan out as expected.

They were evil, not stupid.

Yes, hence my opinion that they should have gone through Nuremberg like the rest of the war criminals instead of being given an exemption because their knowledge came in handy. I see them at the same level as the engineers that designed the gas chambers.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> these are all beyond hard I seem to remember some guy saying something about that. We’ve never let the fact that something doesn’t exist yet stop us. We are a species of inventors. We didn’t stay huddled naked in caves because they work and we got them for free. We aren’t meant to be like the rest of the ecosystem that mutely accepts its fate. We know we can die but we also reject the natural order of succumbing to…

A voice of reason. Thank you. Indeed, when we lived in caves, there were only so many of them. We totally blew past the cave sustainability model thousands of years ago. I'm not saying we should be cavalier about pushing current limits, but I also wouldn't be cavalier about doing things to hurt today's humans due to fears that are not well founded (because, again, negative population growth is now baked in to the wor…

> soon we won't be pushing the planet's limits any longer

What constitutes as 'pushing limits' depends on the kind of planet that is considered tolerable. For many conservation-minded people, pushing the limits happened well before 7 billion.

A population shrinking to a quarter of it's size is only considered undesirable to some because the economy doesn't factor in the externalities of having a large population - e.g., climate change, reduced access to nature, increased stress, polluted environment, species loss, food chain collapse. The solution is to no longer permit these to be externalities, and I don't see that happening without government intervention on a global scale.

As for anyone concerned about an ageing population, within the next few decades human labor shortages will be solved with automation - to the point that there will be a shrinking job market. As for caring for the elderly, they will have access to new mobility technology, and life extension - at first expensive, but then trickling down to poorer people before 2 generations.

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