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Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

reuters.com

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Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#21

Post by wahern »

baron816 wrote: post #5
toomuchtodo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the thread link: > Experts attribute the crush of applications to a number of factors, particularly the slowdown in the entry-level job market caused by the COVID-19 pandemic. Law school and other graduate programs historically become more popular when jobs are tougher to come by in slow economies. Law school applicants shot up nearly 18% in 2002, amid the bursting of the so-called dot-com bubble. The number of…

Has anyone ever done a study on the costs/benefits of funding public defenders? Better funded public defenders, I imagine, would result in fewer and shorter prison sentences (saving money), but I guess also have some potential for an increase in crime (costing money).

I don't know about studies, but San Francisco has had an elected public defender's office since 1921. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Public_Defender%... and http://hrlr.law.columbia.edu/hrlr-online/the-publics-defende... An elected office means they can more freely lobby for funding and changes in policy. OTOH, if the office is elected, there's a chance voters might elect a "tough on crime" public defender. https://www.kqed.org/news/11738958/only-sf-elects-its-public... (But see the previous HRLR article, which suggests that public defender office elections are rarely contested, even in moderate or relatively conservative states, which interestingly contain most of the few such offices.)

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#23

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

Man, so many people are going to be in for a world of hurt:

1. The increased applications and class sizes means there will be more competition for a smaller number of jobs when these folks graduate (tech is automating away a lot of legal work, too).

2. As others have commented, a huge percentage of lawyers regret going to law school. This is actually in direct contrast to many other professional degrees, e.g. MBAs score very high on the "I'd still do it again" question.

3. The regret sentiment is especially high among anything outside of a top 50 program.

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#24

Post by bississippi »

jl2718 wrote: post #8

Summary: entry-level jobs dried up, so people are going to law school instead. Also political motivations. Editorial: More lawyers make the country more complicated and less competitive. We need more and better people going into industrial and medical skilled trades. Think CAD/CAM, not plumber. On the other hand, I think basic legal education would probably have been more relevant than almost anything I’ve ever learn…

Where I live plumbers make more than an average software engineer. Owner operator plumbers make close to half a million a year. And don’t get me started on Plumbers operating a min of 5 trucks they make atleast a million and half. I know this because my brother law is a plumber.

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#25

Post by gnicholas »

It's not surprising that LSAT scores are higher due to the additional time to prep and the ability to control the testing environment. And in reality, it doesn't matter that much. Schools will sort students just like they always have, and students will end up roughly where they otherwise would have. The whole application process is on a curve.

It's also worth noting that over the last decade, it's been increasingly easy to get into prestigious law schools. Students got wise to the fact that law school costs a ton and many students don't get high-paying jobs. As a result, applications went down and lower-scoring students got into better schools. In some ways, this most recent stat may be mostly a reversion to the prior mean.

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#26

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

bississippi wrote: post #24
jl2718 wrote: post #8

Summary: entry-level jobs dried up, so people are going to law school instead. Also political motivations. Editorial: More lawyers make the country more complicated and less competitive. We need more and better people going into industrial and medical skilled trades. Think CAD/CAM, not plumber. On the other hand, I think basic legal education would probably have been more relevant than almost anything I’ve ever learn…

Where I live plumbers make more than an average software engineer. Owner operator plumbers make close to half a million a year. And don’t get me started on Plumbers operating a min of 5 trucks they make atleast a million and half. I know this because my brother law is a plumber.

What's a plumber do with 5 trucks?? You can't drive more than one, right?!

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#27

Post by hnfong »

baron816 wrote: post #5
toomuchtodo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the thread link: > Experts attribute the crush of applications to a number of factors, particularly the slowdown in the entry-level job market caused by the COVID-19 pandemic. Law school and other graduate programs historically become more popular when jobs are tougher to come by in slow economies. Law school applicants shot up nearly 18% in 2002, amid the bursting of the so-called dot-com bubble. The number of…

Has anyone ever done a study on the costs/benefits of funding public defenders? Better funded public defenders, I imagine, would result in fewer and shorter prison sentences (saving money), but I guess also have some potential for an increase in crime (costing money).

That’s just one variable

If public defenders get better, the canonical theory is that the prosecution will be forced to make stronger cases with better evidence, improving the criminal justice system overall.

However, if the number of falsely accused people weren’t high in the first place, there shouldn’t be a significant drop in convictions if the prosecution cab keep up. If they can’t , then presumably crime rates would increase and there would be public pressure to increase funding for police and prosecution and less funding for public defenders, and then you’d end up where you started

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#28

Post by jessewmc »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #26
bississippi wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live plumbers make more than an average software engineer. Owner operator plumbers make close to half a million a year. And don’t get me started on Plumbers operating a min of 5 trucks they make atleast a million and half. I know this because my brother law is a plumber.

What's a plumber do with 5 trucks?? You can't drive more than one, right?!

A plumber with five trucks isn't so much a plumber anymore as a business owner employing five other plumbers.

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#29

Post by benatkin »

pmoriarty wrote: post #7

When I was considering going to law school I learned some sobering facts: - something like 75% of lawyers would not recommend their children go in to law - there is a high rate of burnout among lawyers - while the public perception is that lawyers are extremely high paid, that's only the case some elite lawyers that went to elite schools and work for elite firms[1] For someone like me, who doesn't just want to help t…

Even playing a lawyer on TV seems rough.

Re: Law school applicants surge 13%, biggest increase since dot-com bubble

#30

Post by [deleted] »

otterley wrote: post #15
jl2718 wrote: post #8

Summary: entry-level jobs dried up, so people are going to law school instead. Also political motivations. Editorial: More lawyers make the country more complicated and less competitive. We need more and better people going into industrial and medical skilled trades. Think CAD/CAM, not plumber. On the other hand, I think basic legal education would probably have been more relevant than almost anything I’ve ever learn…

> Think CAD/CAM, not plumber. Have you tried to hire a skilled plumber, landscaper, carpenter, or mason in a major city lately? There's a massive tradesperson shortage.

[deleted]
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