Live data from Hacker News

Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

gq.com

201–210 of 270 posts

Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#201
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've always found the reports of his behind the scenes behavior and its stark contrast with his public persona to be incredibly disturbing, because it paints a picture of someone with psychopathic tendencies. That is a reality distortion field. The Tesla CEO is good at that and it reflects on the deceptive advertisement of FSD and the actual reality of it being unfinished and still unsafe and it puts the lives of m…

No it doesn't put lives at risk. Everyone knows it's not actually full self driving. One of the following must be true: 1) Tesla FSD actually is L5 full self driving 2) Tesla FSD is just driver assist and everyone knows it 3) People are dying in Tesla crashes at a massive rate I doubt that it's 1 and I know it's not 3 because this would have been noticed immediately by the agencies that track this sort of thing and w…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ingratitude? How grateful am I supposed to be for the fact that they get some product here faster than competitors? I'll take a slightly slower world with fewer assholes, thank you very much. The world is still going to change without them.

You are not very representative of society Tesla is worth 600 billion dollars. Means the world is very impatient to buy their cars actually. Also, you don't get to decide how people behave and treat each other. The social equilibrium is such that you only get to decide on your behaviors.

Yeah I guess decent people are dummies for not wanting to live in the world made in the wake of geniuses like you and Harvey Weinstein.

Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ingratitude? How grateful am I supposed to be for the fact that they get some product here faster than competitors? I'll take a slightly slower world with fewer assholes, thank you very much. The world is still going to change without them.

You are not very representative of society Tesla is worth 600 billion dollars. Means the world is very impatient to buy their cars actually. Also, you don't get to decide how people behave and treat each other. The social equilibrium is such that you only get to decide on your behaviors.

Tesla's worth as a publicly traded company is not determined by "the world", but rather by the tiny percentage of people who trade stocks - and even then mostly large investors, not individuals. So it's not exactly representative of the society, either.

Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#204
post #8

I've always found the reports of his behind the scenes behavior and its stark contrast with his public persona to be incredibly disturbing, because it paints a picture of someone with psychopathic tendencies. I suspect there's something really dark with him that originates in his childhood (suffered through horrific bullying and a hellishly awful father).

Hmm this comment was nuked. Probably one of the highest upvote counts but substantially far down the page. Guess I struck a nerve, perhaps with the very man himself, as he undoubtedly reviews anything here that involves him. Shadowy HN is my favorite HN.

Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it was in DSM-IV. Are all of those people now cured?

No. But isn't it ironic for someone to complain about armchair psychologists and then start talking about a condition that's not even recognized anymore? DSM-5 replaced everything with autism spectrum disorder.

No. But isn't it ironic for someone to complain about armchair psychologists and then start talking about a condition that's not even recognized anymore?

The way you put it sounded like the thing didn't even exist. Whereas, it was just a name change. If that wasn't deliberately misleading, it might as well have been. Someone who isn't familiar with these issues might have looked things up briefly, then concluded that someone was lying.

In my view, intellectual honesty demands taking care not to create such misleading situations, even at the cost of strongly "scoring a point." Especially at that cost!

Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#206

Oh no, a CEO yelled at employees, investors, and cut corners. Steve Jobs must be rolling in his grave. I think the record shows that Tesla, and Musk, have undergone a lot of growing pains and mistakes, but the results speak for themselves.

You're a parent; would you be fine with saying, "I mean, I berated my kids and had them work in a way where one of them could've really easily lost an arm, but the quality of their completed chores really speaks for itself"? Would you be fine with them becoming adults and being treated like shit by their boss despite producing results you find enviable? And as another user put it, it can be both - they achieved great…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#207

I guess there are some true facts in this book but I am overall very skeptic of the picture the author is trying to paint or the conclusions he is drawing from those facts. For example, the book says Elon wanted to be Apple's CEO post Tesla acquisition on a phone call. But Elon said it many times over the years that he rather spend his time on engineering and design over management. Edit: Also Tim Cook mentioned in a…

The waterfall of misinformation: 1) Author fabricates "facts" for his book 2) Tabloids copy those "facts" and add filler to fabricate outrage 3) Twitter outrage specialists pick these "facts" up and retweet 4) Other people form their opinion based on 1), 2), 3)

4) Other people form their opinion based on 1), 2), 3)

Predictable. I've known for the better part of a year, that certain groupthink crowds would start to go after Elon Musk. The groupthink crowds eventually go after anyone who thinks for themselves and refuses to bend the knee.

Instead of facts, they use circular references and guilt by association. Also: The phenomenon I just described is independent of point on the political spectrum.

Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally serious question: if Musk is so bad at engineering, to the extent that he's supposedly (?) not just making bad calls himself but also sabotaging the ability of those under him to make good calls, how has he ended up in charge of two companies that have both found (contemporarily) unprecedented success at scale in markets that have been absolutely dominated by huge incumbents for many decades? Tesla and SpaceX…

He's really good at raising money. Which is a skill. An incredibly useful skill, and arguably more important for someone in the position of CEO. He's grabbed $20+ Billion for Tesla. He's grabbed multiple Billions for SpaceX. Its a totally different skill than his persona identifies with. No one else I know of in the modern market has successfully grabbed as much money from people as he has. --------- Pretty much ever…

Wow, what an incredible bunch of nonsense.

SpaceX and Tesla were mostly funded by him because he couldn't find investors. Literally nobody wanted to touch electric cars or rockets. Pretty strange for a guy who is supposedly some mastermind investor whisperer.

They had massive amounts of funding issues and went almost bankrupt because there were so few people willing to invest.

> He's grabbed $20+ Billion for Tesla.

Tesla went threw multiple founding rounds and they have like $17 billion in cash on hand and have retired almost all debt.

So what exactly is your problem? Their automotive margin and operating margin are industry leading and the company has positive cashflow.

Go and compare Tesla funding with other EV companies like Lucid or Rivian. Tesla actually research starved, not over-funded.

> Pretty much every time I've seen him go back to the market (be it 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020...) to ask for more money, he convinces the banks, the stock traders, everyone to give him more money over-and-over-and-over again.

They literally grew a manufacturing company from nothing to a serious global player. Look at their growth rate in deliveries over the years you mentioned.

And the later rounds were popular, guess what, because the company successfully executed with the last investment and fulfilled what investors wanted. That is literally exactly what the whole point of investing is.

Look at the growth of his companies. Claiming its all because of raising money is just so incredibly idiotic. Its the other way around, he can raise money because his company show growth rate and they use the invest money well. There were competitors companies who raised far more, many of them are now gone.

Literally ask anybody who has invested in SpaceX or Tesla in the last 10 years (other then traders) if they think their investment was worth it.

> Which btw: happens to be the skill Edison had over Tesla. But Edison made a lasting company (General Electric) for over a century, while Tesla died dirt poor with only his patents in his name.

Edison was a better business men but he was also a smart guy. This idiotic binary thinking of Tesla smart Edison evil business men is overplayed nonsense. Tesla died poor mostly because his visionary ideas didn't actually work in practice and his attempts at independent business failed because of his technical misunderstandings.

Yes, Tesla invented some brilliant things, but he also had ideas that didn't make any sense at all.

> Many others try to do what Elon Musk does. But they all fail. Elon Musk is the king of raising money.

Yes, they fail because they can raise money and then don't execute, and that's why people wont give them more money.

SpaceX managed to build the first orbital rocket at comparable budget to companies that did it 10 years later (and most have not even flown), when the political and technological environment for doing so was much easier.

Virgin Orbit raised 500M for a much smaller rocket. RocketLab also raised 100M but built a much smaller rocket. Relativity has raised almost 1 billion before they even launched their first rocket. Firefly aerospace had 100M+ and went bankrupt and has since been revived and has raised another few 100M, and they only now are about to launch for the first time.

And all of these companies faces a much, much friendly investor base and much friendly government.

Do the same and compare how much money Tesla raised to get to 100000 cars, and then compare it to how much EV companies now have raised before even delivered a single car. You can even go back and compare it to all other automotive startups in the US history, go ahead and honestly evaluate it. Fact is, Tesla was capital efficient and still are.

The story that his companies constantly make mistakes and fail to execute and this is simply papered over with more money raising is simply factually incorrect. It simply doesn't hold up.

To make the argument that SpaceX was successful because they raised so much more money then the competition is the height of idiocy. If you look at how much access to capital the competition had, SpaceX was basically made fun of for a decade because nobody thought such a small and insignificantly funded company they could build a rocket that could compete internationally and on complex military contracts. If it was about money, and how much you can raise the competition would have crushed them.

Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#209
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In recent interviews - Sandy Munro and Andrej Karpathy vouched his technical capability. But it appears you have made up your mind as it seems to be the simplest answer.

Sandy Munro, by now, is a Tesla shill who can't be taken seriously. Andrej works at Tesla and understandably says nothing bad about his boss. If I thought my boss was technically clueless and needed to say something nice about him, I would probably phrase it the same way: "He's obviously a pretty incredible person in many ways. I'm still trying to really map out his superpowers. He has incredibly well developed intui…

Sandy Munro, by now, is a Tesla shill who can't be taken seriously.

I've seen him say quite negative things about Tesla, and quite positive things about Tesla's competitors. Examples: He stated that the Ford Mach-E battery case is a structural component. He's also touted injection molding as a means of achieving some of the same things that Tesla is doing with aluminum casting. He praised some aspects of the ID4 motor housing design as superior to Tesla.

Can you give me an example of something Sandy Munro has said which IS NOT something good about a Tesla product, where he has clearly sacrificed engineering concerns? As to his statements about Tesla products, everything he's said makes sense to me, and it's my sense that almost all people who call him a Tesla shill simply don't like what he has to say.

Re: Tesla CEO berated employees, investors and tried to get rid of safety measures

#210
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've always found the reports of his behind the scenes behavior and its stark contrast with his public persona to be incredibly disturbing, because it paints a picture of someone with psychopathic tendencies. That is a reality distortion field. The Tesla CEO is good at that and it reflects on the deceptive advertisement of FSD and the actual reality of it being unfinished and still unsafe and it puts the lives of m…

No it doesn't put lives at risk. Everyone knows it's not actually full self driving. One of the following must be true: 1) Tesla FSD actually is L5 full self driving 2) Tesla FSD is just driver assist and everyone knows it 3) People are dying in Tesla crashes at a massive rate I doubt that it's 1 and I know it's not 3 because this would have been noticed immediately by the agencies that track this sort of thing and w…

Another option: Tesla FSD is just driver assist, and most people know that. Yet from time to time, people get into accidents either because they overestimate the abilities of FSD or because they don't react quickly enough when FSD puts them into an unsafe situation.
Post reply on HN