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Student IDs on iPhone and Apple Watch Expand to Canada and More US Universities

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Re: Student IDs on iPhone and Apple Watch Expand to Canada and More US Universities

#41

Post by Willamin »

vishnugupta wrote: post #33

I hope Apple and institutions that rely on it make it easy to recover from a lost device. I totally get the convenience angle, being an Apple ecosystem dweller myself. However, with more and more of identities, payments moving to a single device the recovery workflow should be hassle free. With physical documents, my IDs are spread out so if I lose my drivers' license I can pull out my passport to get a new one. How…

How would this differ from keeping your hotel keycard, ID card, cash, and credit cards in your wallet/purse? If you lose your wallet/purse in that case, you'd also have no key, no ID, no money, etc.

Re: Student IDs on iPhone and Apple Watch Expand to Canada and More US Universities

#42

Post by handrous »

tnel77 wrote: post #27
fsflover wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So this is awesome on the part of Apple, but what about Android? But what if I have neither iOS, nor Android? Why must the government/universities support the duopoly?

Genuine question: what’s the alternative? Perhaps a web app based solution?

What's the problem? This seems like one of many applications of tech chasing very marginal gains.

Re: Student IDs on iPhone and Apple Watch Expand to Canada and More US Universities

#43

Post by motohagiography »

echelon wrote: post #28
motohagiography wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, the Apple devices have a secure element with initialization keys written at time of manufacture, which are then personalized to the user with a new/unique set as part of a registration, but verifiable as having being provisioned, so there is a cryptgraphic chain of trust going back to the manufacture of the secure element. Android is an operating system for a bunch of OEMs who don't have secure el…

It sounds like you're advocating for an Apple monopoly here. I'm also laughing that you say Android isn't secure enough to handle payments. Millions of people use it to do so every day.

It's been a few years since I looked at it, but I'd be interested to see the workaround the EMV partners finally used to do tokenization. Last I saw it some years ago, they were persisting what should have been single use keys (SUKs) for multiple transactions (calling them limited LUKs) so that they could handle an offline payment mode. Apple didn't have that problem because of their SE.

I'm sure there are lots of Android pay solutions, but the risk profile is very different, the solutions for it are limited, and keys in software has a catastrophic failure mode. What's very likely is Android payment solutions are taking a fraud management approach with some kind of government backstop, as from a technical security perspective, software has hard limits.

It's not a monopoly if it's only for university educated people who get access to exclusive services. You can start your own managerialist economy.

Re: Student IDs on iPhone and Apple Watch Expand to Canada and More US Universities

#44

Post by ok123456 »

crazygringo wrote: post #2

I'm a huge fan of being able to use my phone for everything whenever possible -- no wallet, no keys, no cards. So this is awesome on the part of Apple, but what about Android? Are student ID's on Android already a thing? Are they being developed? Or are there unique aspects of Apple controlling the hardware that inherently make cards like these more secure on Apple, that Android can't match (but maybe Pixel can)?

What if you get pulled over and can't show proof of insurance because your phone battery is dead?

What if the cop drops your phone walking back to their car to take down your information?

What if the cop creeps through your messages while he has your phone?

Personally, I'd rather just have a piece of paper ready.

Re: Student IDs on iPhone and Apple Watch Expand to Canada and More US Universities

#45

Post by pkage »

Willamin wrote: post #41
vishnugupta wrote: post #33

I hope Apple and institutions that rely on it make it easy to recover from a lost device. I totally get the convenience angle, being an Apple ecosystem dweller myself. However, with more and more of identities, payments moving to a single device the recovery workflow should be hassle free. With physical documents, my IDs are spread out so if I lose my drivers' license I can pull out my passport to get a new one. How…

How would this differ from keeping your hotel keycard, ID card, cash, and credit cards in your wallet/purse? If you lose your wallet/purse in that case, you'd also have no key, no ID, no money, etc.

Your wallet doesn't need to be recharged.

Re: Student IDs on iPhone and Apple Watch Expand to Canada and More US Universities

#46

Post by lintroller »

meowkit wrote: post #29
throwawayboise wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So much complexity, so many third parties you have to rely upon to not make any mistakes (or be abusive), for the convenience of not carrying a slip of paper in the glove box of your car....

Strawman, Mr. Luddite. I don’t want cash, a wallet, plastic cards, metal keys, or tons of slips of paper from receipts and all other kinds of bullshit. Putting it on the phone as a native app is hardly complex. Use QR codes, an officer won’t need to look at your phone

While I am not a security expert, it seems like a security risk for an officer to scan a QR code with their device.

Re: Student IDs on iPhone and Apple Watch Expand to Canada and More US Universities

#47

Post by core-utility »

niklasrde wrote: post #39
devwastaken wrote: post #16

The more value you make a target the more money is invested to break it. Physical documents require significant physical abilities to steal, you actually have to be in physical possession of a document. In the digital world the databases are accessible from anywhere in the world. Significantly larger attack surface, and we know for a fact no software, especially Apples, is going to be secure enough. Governments have…

"especially Apples" - what are you basing that on? I personally trust Apple more to actually want to protects users' information rather than try find legal loopholes in protection mechanisms to aid their business model.

"even Apple's" might make more sense here. They take a particularly strong approach to security and privacy, but no system or company is perfect

Re: Student IDs on iPhone and Apple Watch Expand to Canada and More US Universities

#48

Post by vishnugupta »

Willamin wrote: post #41
vishnugupta wrote: post #33

I hope Apple and institutions that rely on it make it easy to recover from a lost device. I totally get the convenience angle, being an Apple ecosystem dweller myself. However, with more and more of identities, payments moving to a single device the recovery workflow should be hassle free. With physical documents, my IDs are spread out so if I lose my drivers' license I can pull out my passport to get a new one. How…

How would this differ from keeping your hotel keycard, ID card, cash, and credit cards in your wallet/purse? If you lose your wallet/purse in that case, you'd also have no key, no ID, no money, etc.

With physical IDs there's an option to spread them out. I typically keep passport in hotel room, hotel key card in my back pack etc.,

Perhaps Apple Wallet will act as a secondary but a fast path access and I'll continue to carry physical IDs but don't have to pull them out for most of the cases. That is how I used Apple Pay. I carried bank card with me but used Apple Pay 99% of the times.

Re: Student IDs on iPhone and Apple Watch Expand to Canada and More US Universities

#49

Post by wlesieutre »

Causality1 wrote: post #15
kyrra wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(googler, opinions are my own). I really wish we would have stayed with the Google Wallet moniker. Seeing that you can add student IDs, Walgreens Card[0], Vaccine status/card[1], various metro cards (like Japan's Suica[2]), it is more like a wallet than a pay app at this point. [0] https://www.walgreens.com/topic/promotion/google-pay.jsp [1] https://support.google.com/googlepay/answer/10890261?visit_i... [2] https://…

"The only way to justify my job is to convince people things need to be changed" is a cancer in Google. It's why they renamed the Android Market the "Play Store" as if that name wasn't fucking ridiculous.

I assume the Play Store rename was motivated by wanting to have it under proprietary branding, instead of being a generic store name that's also available to de-Googled competitors who don't ship Google Play services.

Re: Student IDs on iPhone and Apple Watch Expand to Canada and More US Universities

#50

Post by lotsofpulp »

ok123456 wrote: post #44
crazygringo wrote: post #2

I'm a huge fan of being able to use my phone for everything whenever possible -- no wallet, no keys, no cards. So this is awesome on the part of Apple, but what about Android? Are student ID's on Android already a thing? Are they being developed? Or are there unique aspects of Apple controlling the hardware that inherently make cards like these more secure on Apple, that Android can't match (but maybe Pixel can)?

What if you get pulled over and can't show proof of insurance because your phone battery is dead? What if the cop drops your phone walking back to their car to take down your information? What if the cop creeps through your messages while he has your phone? Personally, I'd rather just have a piece of paper ready.

You should not even have to show proof of insurance. There should be a database the cop’s license plate scanner can look into and show the cop everything they need to know.

I assume there already is, and the paper requirements are just something for people to trip over and trigger other suspicions.

The cop actually does not even need to know about insurance at all. The state charges everyone a yearly tax anyway (“vehicle registration”), they could easily just not let people renew this registration if they don’t have insurance.

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