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Student IDs on iPhone and Apple Watch Expand to Canada and More US Universities

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Re: Student IDs on iPhone and Apple Watch Expand to Canada and More US Universities

#11

I'm a huge fan of being able to use my phone for everything whenever possible -- no wallet, no keys, no cards. So this is awesome on the part of Apple, but what about Android? Are student ID's on Android already a thing? Are they being developed? Or are there unique aspects of Apple controlling the hardware that inherently make cards like these more secure on Apple, that Android can't match (but maybe Pixel can)?

Now that it's (clearly) catching on, I can see Google and/or Samsung re-branding their Pay apps to something else (maybe Google goes back to Wallet?) and including ID capabilities.

Personally while I like the idea of digital ID, never losing your cards, almost-impossible to get stolen, I don't like the idea that if someone (i.e. a LEO) needs to see my information, I might need to hand them my device, and in a some jurisdictions could be considered granting consent to a search. I also don't like the idea of what happens if your phone is damaged or the battery dies and it contains your only identification.

Re: Student IDs on iPhone and Apple Watch Expand to Canada and More US Universities

#12

I'm a huge fan of being able to use my phone for everything whenever possible -- no wallet, no keys, no cards. So this is awesome on the part of Apple, but what about Android? Are student ID's on Android already a thing? Are they being developed? Or are there unique aspects of Apple controlling the hardware that inherently make cards like these more secure on Apple, that Android can't match (but maybe Pixel can)?

> So this is awesome on the part of Apple, but what about Android?

But what if I have neither iOS, nor Android? Why must the government/universities support the duopoly?

Re: Student IDs on iPhone and Apple Watch Expand to Canada and More US Universities

#13

I'm a huge fan of being able to use my phone for everything whenever possible -- no wallet, no keys, no cards. So this is awesome on the part of Apple, but what about Android? Are student ID's on Android already a thing? Are they being developed? Or are there unique aspects of Apple controlling the hardware that inherently make cards like these more secure on Apple, that Android can't match (but maybe Pixel can)?

> So this is awesome on the part of Apple, but what about Android? But what if I have neither iOS, nor Android? Why must the government/universities support the duopoly?

When I was still a kid, I was completely looking forward to where a mobile phone could be an all-in-one solution for carrying stuff. I didn't know how it was going to look, but I wanted it. Now looking at how maliciously neglectful big tech companies have been with data over the past decade, I don't want these companies handling anything regarding official documents.

Re: Student IDs on iPhone and Apple Watch Expand to Canada and More US Universities

#14

I'm curious how different digital IDs will work in the near future. Will one app hold all your official IDs or will there be an app for each purpose? After fall 2022, the EU plans to do a pilot of the EU digital ID. It would "let users store electronic forms of identification and other official documents, such as driver’s licenses, prescriptions and school diplomas." [1] https://apnews.com/article/europe-health-coron…

If I had to hazard a guess, there would be an app for each ID, with Wallet (or your platform's equivalent), aggregating them all. US citizen? US Gov app. Have temporary or permanent residency somewhere? Another app developed or sponsored by that government.

(i am a beta tester in a state digital ID system rollout)

Re: Student IDs on iPhone and Apple Watch Expand to Canada and More US Universities

#15
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like yes: https://support.google.com/pay/answer/9867059?hl=en > You can add your campus ID card to your Android phone to securely access your residence hall. You can also use your campus ID with Google Pay to pay for things on campus such as dining, laundry, vending, books, and more.

(googler, opinions are my own). I really wish we would have stayed with the Google Wallet moniker. Seeing that you can add student IDs, Walgreens Card[0], Vaccine status/card[1], various metro cards (like Japan's Suica[2]), it is more like a wallet than a pay app at this point. [0] https://www.walgreens.com/topic/promotion/google-pay.jsp [1] https://support.google.com/googlepay/answer/10890261?visit_i... [2] https://…

"The only way to justify my job is to convince people things need to be changed" is a cancer in Google. It's why they renamed the Android Market the "Play Store" as if that name wasn't fucking ridiculous.

Re: Student IDs on iPhone and Apple Watch Expand to Canada and More US Universities

#16
The more value you make a target the more money is invested to break it. Physical documents require significant physical abilities to steal, you actually have to be in physical possession of a document.

In the digital world the databases are accessible from anywhere in the world. Significantly larger attack surface, and we know for a fact no software, especially Apples, is going to be secure enough.

Governments have shown they cannot be responsible with even social security ID's. I hope they do not draw Inspirstion.

Re: Student IDs on iPhone and Apple Watch Expand to Canada and More US Universities

#17

I'm a huge fan of being able to use my phone for everything whenever possible -- no wallet, no keys, no cards. So this is awesome on the part of Apple, but what about Android? Are student ID's on Android already a thing? Are they being developed? Or are there unique aspects of Apple controlling the hardware that inherently make cards like these more secure on Apple, that Android can't match (but maybe Pixel can)?

Now that it's (clearly) catching on, I can see Google and/or Samsung re-branding their Pay apps to something else (maybe Google goes back to Wallet?) and including ID capabilities. Personally while I like the idea of digital ID, never losing your cards, almost-impossible to get stolen, I don't like the idea that if someone (i.e. a LEO) needs to see my information, I might need to hand them my device, and in a some ju…

In my province (Alberta) I'm allowed to carry digital proof of insurance for my car instead of the standard pink sheet. The app has a mode that displays the insurance info on the lockscreen while locking the rest of the phone to the police (or whoever else needs to see it). So there are technical solutions to the first issue.

The second issue, I completely agree, I would rather the system be an addition to existing IDs rather than a replacement to them.

Re: Student IDs on iPhone and Apple Watch Expand to Canada and More US Universities

#18

I'm curious how different digital IDs will work in the near future. Will one app hold all your official IDs or will there be an app for each purpose? After fall 2022, the EU plans to do a pilot of the EU digital ID. It would "let users store electronic forms of identification and other official documents, such as driver’s licenses, prescriptions and school diplomas." [1] https://apnews.com/article/europe-health-coron…

If I had to hazard a guess, there would be an app for each ID, with Wallet (or your platform's equivalent), aggregating them all. US citizen? US Gov app. Have temporary or permanent residency somewhere? Another app developed or sponsored by that government. (i am a beta tester in a state digital ID system rollout)

In Poland something like this is widely deployed. Unfortunately it doesn't integrate with wallet.

There's a single "Mobile Citizen" app and there you download various kinds of IDs into it, by logging in to the relevant website for that ID.

Though you can't use it in place of your ID card, it's enough to get you through I.e. police identification. You can also download your driver license, student id, European covid passport, etc. onto it, and those do count as the real thing.

Re: Student IDs on iPhone and Apple Watch Expand to Canada and More US Universities

#19

I'm a huge fan of being able to use my phone for everything whenever possible -- no wallet, no keys, no cards. So this is awesome on the part of Apple, but what about Android? Are student ID's on Android already a thing? Are they being developed? Or are there unique aspects of Apple controlling the hardware that inherently make cards like these more secure on Apple, that Android can't match (but maybe Pixel can)?

As I understand it, the Apple devices have a secure element with initialization keys written at time of manufacture, which are then personalized to the user with a new/unique set as part of a registration, but verifiable as having being provisioned, so there is a cryptgraphic chain of trust going back to the manufacture of the secure element.

Android is an operating system for a bunch of OEMs who don't have secure elements in their devices, and even ones who do still exist in a fragmented ecosystem where their verification doesn't include ones outside their models. Modern chips have a similar feature, but the key management between manufacturers is an unsolved business problem. There are technical ways to solve it, but higher level interoperability beyond enforced standards has never a high priority for OEMs. The economics haven't been there.

You could make an inferior one for Android devices, but it likely wouldn't be sufficiently secure to handle payments, credit, taxation, fines, social compliance scores, and other use cases for identity. Identity security needs to be strong enough to be used as a stick, and the only carrots it offers are those whose scarcity is artificially managed.

Realistically, if you are attending a university, the cost of an Apple device can just be priced into your loan, and strategically, making university student products consolidate Apple's dominance of the middle class market and up, and as a status symbol of societal membership, sort of how Facebook started in the college system.

I'm skeptical of digital identity companies (as distinct from authentication services) because to me their entire business model reduces to Hollerith machines as a service, so YMMV on this view.

Re: Student IDs on iPhone and Apple Watch Expand to Canada and More US Universities

#20
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now that it's (clearly) catching on, I can see Google and/or Samsung re-branding their Pay apps to something else (maybe Google goes back to Wallet?) and including ID capabilities. Personally while I like the idea of digital ID, never losing your cards, almost-impossible to get stolen, I don't like the idea that if someone (i.e. a LEO) needs to see my information, I might need to hand them my device, and in a some ju…

In my province (Alberta) I'm allowed to carry digital proof of insurance for my car instead of the standard pink sheet. The app has a mode that displays the insurance info on the lockscreen while locking the rest of the phone to the police (or whoever else needs to see it). So there are technical solutions to the first issue. The second issue, I completely agree, I would rather the system be an addition to existing I…

So much complexity, so many third parties you have to rely upon to not make any mistakes (or be abusive), for the convenience of not carrying a slip of paper in the glove box of your car....
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