Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0% • Hacker News Board

Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#341

Post by zaarn » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 4:34 AM UTC

matheusmoreira wrote: post #332

zaarn wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be the point of a competitive game if you could just cheat? Racing games like Trackmania live off verifying people don't cheat because it's a game where people compete for leaderboards. Should they not be allowed to prevent you from cheating yourself to the top of the leaderboard.

They should recognize the fact that it's impossible to prevent cheating and stop shipping malware to users in an fruitless attempt to do so.

But it's not impossible to prevent cheating. CS:GO has a very low occurence rate of cheating as most cheaters are caught extremely early by anti-cheat or later by other anti-cheat efforts with more complex functionality.

Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#342

Post by zaarn » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 4:35 AM UTC

matheusmoreira wrote: post #329

zaarn wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the same place that real-life competitions tend to have rules about cheating that are enforced. Why do people think that they get a free pass because they can't see the opponent face to face? If you want to play with friends, plenty of multiplayer games offer that without anticheat (Arma lets you even uninstall the anti-cheat and play on anti-cheat disabled servers).

> Why do people think that they get a free pass because they can't see the opponent face to face? We don't think that. We think anti-cheating rules aren't important enough to justify shipping literal malware to people's computers and taking over their machines.

It's not literal malware though, unless you have proof that it does something malicious like encrypt a users directory or exfiltrate sensitive data and that every single anti-cheat does that.

Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#343

Post by toastal » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 5:38 AM UTC

rashil2000 wrote: post #112

toastal wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The odd thing to me is how immediately people jumped to "you can install Windows on it", like one would need to. The other thing that was funny is people saying "with Windows, you can run emulators", as if Linux couldn't already do that and with better framerates.

I have used the popular open source NDS emulator - Citra, and it runs like 15 times faster on Windows compared to Ubuntu (NVidia GPU).

Versus like cemu which you can see people in forums suggest running through WINE to get better FPS even without an working Linux build.

Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#344

Post by toastal » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 5:41 AM UTC

dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #164

toastal wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The odd thing to me is how immediately people jumped to "you can install Windows on it", like one would need to. The other thing that was funny is people saying "with Windows, you can run emulators", as if Linux couldn't already do that and with better framerates.

Lots of people (especially younger people who are used to consoles) don't seem to understand what Linux is exactly. To many, PC = Windows and !PC means there is no software for it. Many seem to be under the impression that Linux is just a commandline thing.

Yeah, this is why like another commenter had stated that it's so imperative influencers like Linus Tech Tips distilling how to install and first-time operate GNU/Linux to the casual tech enthusiast and gamer crowds that don't focus on software or free software movements. I'm hopeful to see this be the trend, especially if it goes to non-Ubuntu-based distros strictly to avoid monoculture in the ecosystem.

Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#345

Post by encryptluks2 » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 7:29 AM UTC

vardump wrote: post #20

encryptluks2 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nowadays OS matters pretty little. > Other than platform specific development work, it doesn't really matter in the big picture. Yes it does. It just doesn't matter to you.

Right. I can just talk for myself. I do think in the big picture what really matters for the most is really just a good web browser. Thinking about this, I just realized I tend to pick OS according to device type. For laptops, macOS for the best touchpad, security and speedy open-lid-to-machine-actually-usable time. But I'd sure like "upgradeability" and "repairability" over thinness, something 2012 Macbooks still ha…

> I do think in the big picture what really matters for the most is really just a good web browser.

If you prefer web apps. A lot of people don't prefer web apps and for good reasons.

> macOS for the best touchpad, security and speedy open-lid-to-machine-actually-usable time

I can't speak about the touchpad, but Mac OS isn't immune to vulnerabilities and there have been multiple questionable privacy practices. Linux tends to cold boot faster, and can suspend and unsuspend just as quick if not quicker.

> Windows got good desktop performance and nice commercial software library

And Linux has even better desktop performance. Many people would see the open source software benefits of Linux as a pro, not to mention Windows package management still being significantly behind Linux. Many people are also very happy with gaming on Linux.

> For servers, it's pretty much always Linux or possibly some BSD. Minimal, easy to admin, fast, efficient and secure if configured correctly.

The same can be said about desktop too.

Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#346

Post by PUSH_AX » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 7:36 AM UTC

matheusmoreira wrote: post #268

feanaro wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agreed. Where is this "right not to be cheated in an online game" coming from anyway? Sounds absurd when you put it in proper terms, that is someone else taking control over your computer.

> Where is this "right not to be cheated in an online game" coming from anyway? No idea. Who cares if some random guy cheats really? It's nothing compared to losing our computing freedom. Actual important stuff that matters. Same fundamental issue as DRM which nearly everyone agrees is bad. Our computers are ours and game companies just need to deal with it. If people are gonna cheat, then so be it.

You have the freedom to not install it.

Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#347

Post by rvz » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 9:22 AM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #115

Interestingly, Linux is the dominant gaming platform. It's just that it's called Android.

> Linux is the dominant gaming platform.

Given that the article is obviously talking about Desktop Linux, since you can run Proton exclusively on Linux distros (and not Android) the statistics says 96% on Windows and 1% on Linux.

So how is Linux itself a 'dominant gaming platform' here when it is obviously Windows again? It's always cute to see lots of denial of the results here.

Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#348

Post by rasz » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 2:08 PM UTC

Macha wrote: post #312

zaarn wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the same place that real-life competitions tend to have rules about cheating that are enforced. Why do people think that they get a free pass because they can't see the opponent face to face? If you want to play with friends, plenty of multiplayer games offer that without anticheat (Arma lets you even uninstall the anti-cheat and play on anti-cheat disabled servers).

Does my local basketball competition requiring all competitors to submit negative doping tests before competing? Do they get to monitor me for 24 hours before the game? Because that's the level of seriousness of most gaming and the proportionality of using a rootkit to prevent cheating. Sure, the Olympic athletes (or I guess in this analogy, eSports pros competing online) get the full "we're going to make very sure y…

Nintendo says yes https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2021/07/zelda_breath_of_th...

Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#349

Post by rasz » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 2:10 PM UTC

zaarn wrote: post #310

matheusmoreira wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct, they're completely irrelevant. Of all the affronts to computing freedom, anti-cheating is the worst. The truth is the online gaming model where we play with untrustworthy strangers is completely broken. We should all be playing with friends we can trust instead.

What would be the point of a competitive game if you could just cheat? Racing games like Trackmania live off verifying people don't cheat because it's a game where people compete for leaderboards. Should they not be allowed to prevent you from cheating yourself to the top of the leaderboard.

Games like Trackmania should have SERVER SIDE data input validation instead of pushing rootkits.

Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#350

Post by dragonwriter » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 2:17 PM UTC

matheusmoreira wrote: post #268

feanaro wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agreed. Where is this "right not to be cheated in an online game" coming from anyway? Sounds absurd when you put it in proper terms, that is someone else taking control over your computer.

> Where is this "right not to be cheated in an online game" coming from anyway? No idea. Who cares if some random guy cheats really? It's nothing compared to losing our computing freedom. Actual important stuff that matters. Same fundamental issue as DRM which nearly everyone agrees is bad. Our computers are ours and game companies just need to deal with it. If people are gonna cheat, then so be it.

> Who cares if some random guy cheats really?

The kind of people who care enough to spend money on an online game.

> It's nothing compared to losing our computing freedom.

Then don't play online games with anti-cheat. Freedom doesn't mean your decisions don't have consequences—just you have the freedom to choose between the privacy of not submitting to an anti-doping monitoring regime or participating in certain competitive sports.

> Our computers are ours and game companies just need to deal with it. If people are gonna cheat, then so be it.

Game companies online services are theirs, and your just going to need to deal with it. If firms are going to require anti-cheat, then that's the cost of playing online. You have the freedom to not participate.