Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

thehill.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 153 posts

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#81

Post by BoxOfRain »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #70
qwerty456127 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As for this - yes, I'm rather sure. The drug war is evil. I'm glad some states are legalizing psychedelics already. I would add that zero-tolerance policies by which people loose jobs and schools for trace amounts of light drugs found in their urine samples after a weekend should be banned too.

Drug tests should be banned for most folks. Additionally: What is a trace amount after a weekend? Can you tell if someone smoked pot on Sunday rather than Monday on a Wednesday drug test? Does it matter if it is a "heavy" drug (say, mushrooms?)? Does it matter that someone did a couple of lines of coke saturday rather than be drunk and high from Friday to Sunday?

I'd outright refuse to work at a place that imposed them on principle, body integrity is one of my strongest-held values. There's enough creepy corporate manipulation of our private lives as it is, the only piss they'll get from me is a swift "piss off" and I'll work somewhere that respects personal boundaries.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#82

Post by altacc »

GaryTang wrote: post #73
elygre wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I understand what you mean by “accusations of being traitors from the right”. However, I was unaware of “BLM hostility on the left”. Could you share some more information about this?

A multitude more deaths caused by BLM protests. It wasn’t the rosy portrayal the TV showed you. And many people are still living in fear, not knowing when a BLM protest might come burn down their home.

As with many things, the perception of BLM, and associated fear, is based on how the media portrays it and what they give attention to. People living in fear of BLM mostly have that false fear instilled in them by the media, especially the right wing media.

The overwhelming majority of BLM protests in the US are completely peaceful. Where protests have turned violent it is often initiated by police action and is typically both small scale and very localized. The definition of "violent" demonstration includes blocking roads, which many people wouldn't consider actually violent or destructive. However some people think BLM is an immediate threat to themselves & their property.

To be clear, BLM is certainly not the only example of an incorrectly perceived event/movement/whatever. This happens every day and across the spectrum of politics, geography, etc... Human nature is not perfect and neither is the environment we're living in, so perfect understanding of complex & large scale systems is impossible.

https://acleddata.com/2021/05/25/a-year-of-racial-justice-pr...

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#83

Post by mcherm »

benmmurphy wrote: post #64

Is this a normal rate of suicide in these circumstances? Is there anything to indicate that these are instead murders in order to hide something?

> Is this a normal rate of suicide in these circumstances?

Absolutely not.

For real numbers:

> For 2019, the [Blue HELP] calculated the officer suicide rate at 22.4 per 100,000 population.[1]

...and that is an annual rate.

> Is there anything to indicate that these are instead murders in order to hide something?

No, there is nothing to indicate that.

[1] https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jun/24/facebook-p...

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#84

Post by hashhar »

cycomanic wrote: post #71

Does anyone else find the formulation "died by suicide" a bit weird? Is that commonly used? Compared to "committed suicide" it seems to me that it is supposed to associate a passive action, as if something happened to them. Just to make sure, I absolutely deplore the people storming the capitol and by no means support any of their causes. However I find this type of corporate speak often troublesome, especially if it…

Suicide is something that happens due to a cause, generally mental health issues or extreme physical pain. “died by suicide” removes culpability from the person who has lost their life and allows a discussion about the disease or disorder from which they were suffering.

Consider a case where someone got shot. Should the headline read, "died by stepping front of a gun" or "shot dead by a gun"?

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#85

Post by cycomanic »

BoxOfRain wrote: post #80
cycomanic wrote: post #71

Does anyone else find the formulation "died by suicide" a bit weird? Is that commonly used? Compared to "committed suicide" it seems to me that it is supposed to associate a passive action, as if something happened to them. Just to make sure, I absolutely deplore the people storming the capitol and by no means support any of their causes. However I find this type of corporate speak often troublesome, especially if it…

I think it's because the term "commit suicide" implies a moral judgement, in the past Western notions of suicide were actually pretty barbaric. To accuse someone of trying to commit suicide would have been a fairly serious accusation, in fact in the past in some jurisdictions suicide could mean that your estate went to the government instead of your family as suicide was seen as an offence against God and the Crown.…

Thanks for educating me, while I was aware of the strong judgements against suicide (in particular based on religious justifications), I did not connect that to the use of language. Maybe I was jumping to conclusions too quickly.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#86

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

BoxOfRain wrote: post #80
cycomanic wrote: post #71

Does anyone else find the formulation "died by suicide" a bit weird? Is that commonly used? Compared to "committed suicide" it seems to me that it is supposed to associate a passive action, as if something happened to them. Just to make sure, I absolutely deplore the people storming the capitol and by no means support any of their causes. However I find this type of corporate speak often troublesome, especially if it…

I think it's because the term "commit suicide" implies a moral judgement, in the past Western notions of suicide were actually pretty barbaric. To accuse someone of trying to commit suicide would have been a fairly serious accusation, in fact in the past in some jurisdictions suicide could mean that your estate went to the government instead of your family as suicide was seen as an offence against God and the Crown.…

Suicide is ultimately executed by an individual who makes the choice to do so. Obfuscating or minimizing that fact and refusing to shame it will remove social pressure preventing and dissuading that act.

Shame and fear of my father finding my body is what prevented me from doing it years ago.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#87

Post by [deleted] »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #86
BoxOfRain wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's because the term "commit suicide" implies a moral judgement, in the past Western notions of suicide were actually pretty barbaric. To accuse someone of trying to commit suicide would have been a fairly serious accusation, in fact in the past in some jurisdictions suicide could mean that your estate went to the government instead of your family as suicide was seen as an offence against God and the Crown.…

Suicide is ultimately executed by an individual who makes the choice to do so. Obfuscating or minimizing that fact and refusing to shame it will remove social pressure preventing and dissuading that act. Shame and fear of my father finding my body is what prevented me from doing it years ago.

[deleted]

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#88

Post by roenxi »

ben_w wrote: post #61
roenxi wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Derek Chauvin would never have seen court without months of protests. That is an uncertain counterfactual. There was widespread horror at the video. Since he was in fact prosecuted and convicted quite convincingly it obviously wan't impossible. > [police being mentally prepared to kill] is a very serious problem... It is expected. That is part of their role in society. Otherwise it'll be necessary to get the army i…

> > [police being mentally prepared to kill] is a very serious problem... > It is expected. That is part of their role in society. Trivially falsified by the majority of UK police not even having access to firearms. While (fire)armed police do exist in the UK, they are the exception not the rule, and indeed surveys repeatedly show a majority of UK police officers do not even want to be routinely armed. No matter what…

> Trivially falsified by the majority of UK police not even having access to firearms.

It happens [0]. This is a thing the police are expected to do from time to time. it does not necessarily mean they have made a criminal mistake.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforc...

and note

After police stopped his vehicle, Charles fled the vehicle and was pursued by police into a shop, where he placed an object into his mouth and resisted arrest. The officer, who wore a body camera, threw Charles to the ground, held him down by the neck, and tried to reach inside his mouth. A member of the public helped him restrain Charles. Charles "became ill", was given emergency treatment at the scene, and was taken by ambulance to Royal London Hospital, where he died later that morning. The object Charles tried to swallow was reportedly recovered at the scene.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#89

Post by okamiueru »

neartheplain wrote: post #62
elygre wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I understand what you mean by “accusations of being traitors from the right”. However, I was unaware of “BLM hostility on the left”. Could you share some more information about this?

The Democratic Party and BLM movement entertained calls for police abolition and defunding all summer. Three times as many officers were hospitalized defending the Portland federal courthouse compared to those defending the Capitol. BLM grafitti in Portland called for officers there to be defunded, abolished, and killed. The Democratic Party mayor of Portland banned city officers from helping defend the federal court…

From the list of examples, only the Portland grafitti suggesting cops be killed seems valid to me. Defunding police is something I'd assume cops could be very much for, assuming they understand the intention behind. It's isn't a "let's get rid of police" as much as it is "let's reduce the scope of police responsibility". This way, people who might have a mental or drug problem are met by health care professionals, rather than people with guns. If I were a cop, I'd be all for it.

Re: Fourth police officer who responded to Jan 6 attack dies by suicide

#90

Post by BoxOfRain »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #86
BoxOfRain wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's because the term "commit suicide" implies a moral judgement, in the past Western notions of suicide were actually pretty barbaric. To accuse someone of trying to commit suicide would have been a fairly serious accusation, in fact in the past in some jurisdictions suicide could mean that your estate went to the government instead of your family as suicide was seen as an offence against God and the Crown.…

Suicide is ultimately executed by an individual who makes the choice to do so. Obfuscating or minimizing that fact and refusing to shame it will remove social pressure preventing and dissuading that act. Shame and fear of my father finding my body is what prevented me from doing it years ago.

I think suicide prevention should be a matter for healthcare professionals personally, what works for one person might be very dangerous for another.
Post reply on HN