Live data from Hacker News

SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

arstechnica.com

61–70 of 421 posts

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#61
post #29
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that cost-wise, they're already putting the RS-25 to shame ( https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/05/nasa-will-pay-a-stag... ), this seems more like an icing on the cake.

Given that you could probably build a Merlin out of solid gold and it would come in cheaper than an RS-25, that's not exactly saying much...

I LOLd but then had to do the math. Turns out that the dry weight of a SpaceX Merlin engine, in gold, costs almost exactly the same as a production RS-25.

Current spot price of gold is $1800/oz. Merlin dry weight is 1380 pounds. 1380 pounds of gold is right at 40 million dollars.

Per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-25#Space_Shuttle_program :

"A total of 46 reusable RS-25 engines, each costing around US$40 million, were flown during the Space Shuttle program"

Beautiful.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#62
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that you could probably build a Merlin out of solid gold and it would come in cheaper than an RS-25, that's not exactly saying much...

I LOLd but then had to do the math. Turns out that the dry weight of a SpaceX Merlin engine, in gold, costs almost exactly the same as a production RS-25. Current spot price of gold is $1800/oz. Merlin dry weight is 1380 pounds. 1380 pounds of gold is right at 40 million dollars. Per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-25#Space_Shuttle_program : "A total of 46 reusable RS-25 engines, each costing around US$40 million, w…

They cost much more than $40M these days.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm as much into spaceships as the next nerd, I think you lack some self-awareness here. Space is clearly a mild curiosity to you at most.

> Space is clearly a mild curiosity to you at most. I think it's extremely unhelpful to tell people what their interests are, or what they believe. How much could you possibly know about this person's interests from that one post?

How could the OP possibly know how interested other people are in spaceflight? They did exactly as much, by claiming they were as interested as the average nerd.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#64
post #56
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, If I understand it right, both booster and starship will end up in the ocean. You mean for the first test flight? Do you have a source? Long term plan is definitely land landing, but I haven't seen anything about the first test flight. I assumed that they would try and land it from the start, they've already landed starship a few times, and it seems like that's where a lot of the unknowns still are (e.g. they…

The test flight trajectories are posted with the FAA and covered in numerous places, for instance Article: https://spaceflightnow.com/2021/05/13/spacex-outlines-plans-... Video (Marcus House): https://youtu.be/9-9k513UIVw?t=298 Basically both vechicles (the massive booster and the starship itself (2nd stage) are going to "land" on the water, which means a hover and then sinking into the water. Booster - Boost and sep…

Thanks :)

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strong statement after the 737 MAX debacle.

Can someone explain why the MAX was allowed to re-use the 737 type certificate?

There's a swath of people who have adopted the position that it's best to let industry be the primary agent of regulation, largely for ideological political reasons. As we saw with the MAX debacle, such a position is foolish, as companies will always be cravenly willing to cut corners in the interest of short term profits.

This is one of the biggest political changes I've gone through. In my early 20s I was much more sympathetic to what I'd now call naive libertarianism. Today I realize there's no magic bullet, and you need healthy leadership in both the private and public spheres. Ideally the two buttress each other against their individual flaws. However in the US the process of regulatory capture has hijacked this ideal.

We won't be able to fix it unless we vote in politicians who see this as a top priority. We get the quality of government we ask for.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#66
post #5
post #2

Elon appears to be building a large ground-locked monument to demonstrate his argument in this tweet: Unlike its aircraft division, which is fine, the FAA space division has a fundamentally broken regulatory structure. Their rules are meant for a handful of expendable launches per year from a few government facilities. Under those rules, humanity will never get to Mars. -- https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/13548625…

The single most important job for humanity right now is to save this one planet we have from destruction. There is enough time to think about colonizing the stars after that. I'm as much into spaceships as the next nerd, but people need to get real. The world isn't going to end because his next launch is a month late due to pesky safety regulations or whatever else. This effort is going to play out over many generati…

I think the best way to save the planet is to move heavy industry into space. Move our power generation into space and beam it down. Make advanced technologies in space which benefit those on Earth. Move people into real orbital habitats.

Make Earth proper a gigantic park / nature reserve.

We can't "wait" for anything, or the window during which we can develop space travel will close. 10 or 100 years from now we might no longer have the motivation or the means to fund and build new vechicles like these.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead of parroting what you read on social media, how about doing a bit of critical thinking on this Totally unnecessary. That gratuitous dig doesn't advance your argument at all. > What about all the resources going into video games, sports, movies, music, amusements parks, television, weapons systems, desserts, travel and vacations, etc? That doesn't seem like it's u/paxys issue to address. The person they resp…

> Totally unnecessary Good point, I should have restrained myself here. The rest of your comments would be fair, except that u/paxys said the following: > There is enough time to think about colonizing the stars after that. Which clearly indicates that we should not be working on space travel until AFTER we've solved humanity's problems.

The nation with the largest amount of military force and nuclear weapons, as well as control of the globally used & prized currency ($ USD), and even the universal language of the skies (well, maybe you could say it's England's language, but the central power of the U.S. is the reason it's the language of the skies), has around 1/3rd of it's nation that actively would like to see at least an other 1/3 of it's nation die, and said other 1/3 really only wants to get things like nationwide enforcement of basic human rights (like in all other, I think, 32 of 33 highly developed nations do), and to actually embody the meaning of "welfare state" that the U.S. has been defined as for... idk how long tbh, but for quite some time - Along with a want for the aforementioned 1/3rd not wanting to literally kill them.

And they're simply unable to come to any understanding, after decades of botched discourse.

I don't see how some group of people focusing on space travel as a way to potentially divert the end of humanity as something that bad

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#68
post #2

Elon appears to be building a large ground-locked monument to demonstrate his argument in this tweet: Unlike its aircraft division, which is fine, the FAA space division has a fundamentally broken regulatory structure. Their rules are meant for a handful of expendable launches per year from a few government facilities. Under those rules, humanity will never get to Mars. -- https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/13548625…

> The single most important job humanity has is to get our eggs into more than one basket.

This is a defensible opinion, as are the others saying that the most important job of humanity is to fix our current basket.

While neither agreeing or disagreeing, I will note another very important thing SpaceX is doing:

"The value of beauty and inspiration is very much underrated, no question. But I want to be clear: I'm not trying to be anyone's savior. I'm just trying to think about the future and not be sad."

A lot of what SpaceX is doing is extremely inspirational, and I think the world could use more things to look forward to in the future.

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a couple of points where I disagree with you, but one in particular I hear very often and should be debunked. A colony on mars, even of significant size and population, is 100% condemned to certain death if separated from Earth. It would be, for all intents and purposes, in the same "basket". Google "how to make a pen from scratch" for a quick primer into why, but the tl;dr version is that it takes having a…

Should be debunked if it’s not true (that a colony could be self-sustaining), but you haven’t debunked it here.

I'm probably not going to debunk it either, not by any real standards. But...

It seems to me that our level of technology has increased, partly through new discoveries, partly through new ways of applying those discoveries, but also at least partly through increased specialization. You've got a farmer growing huge amounts of food. But that's because there's a tractor factory, and the tractors are smart because of the chips in them, and the chips connect to the GPS satellites in orbit. To make that work, you need more than the farmer. You need the workers in the tractor factory, but also the workers in the chip plant in Taiwan, and the chip factory needs the equipment manufacturer in the Netherlands. And you need the rocket manufacturers so you can put GPS satellites in orbit. And the rocket fuel manufacturers. And so on. It basically has taken a globally integrated material culture to achieve that level of productivity on the part of the individual farmer. Which we can do, because the farmers are so productive that we don't have to spend very many people on farming.

A fair chunk of the progress of the last 200 years has been made possible by increasing scales of integration. But I worry, because we're running out of globe to integrate. (Africa, maybe?)

So, back to Mars. Yeah, none of this proves that 1000 people couldn't be self-sustaining. But for them to do that, they'd need a fair amount of tools. And that means that they'd need someone who knows how to repair and/or replace every one of those tools (and any tools they use in the process). And there's a hard cutoff below which they cannot fall, due to the need for oxygen. They can't just fall back to being hunter-gatherers.

So, yeah, I didn't debunk it. But, seriously, what's the maximum number of sophisticated kinds of machines that 1000 people can run and maintain? 100? 500? Can you build a self-sustaining colony on Mars with only 500 kinds of machines?

Re: SpaceX installed 29 Raptor engines on a Super Heavy rocket last night

#70
post #2

Elon appears to be building a large ground-locked monument to demonstrate his argument in this tweet: Unlike its aircraft division, which is fine, the FAA space division has a fundamentally broken regulatory structure. Their rules are meant for a handful of expendable launches per year from a few government facilities. Under those rules, humanity will never get to Mars. -- https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/13548625…

There are a couple of major reasons the FAA is involved:

1. Fuel-air explosions at ground level can injure people or destroy property (even kilometers away)

2. Rockets on unplanned trajectories can ruin people's day

3. Lots of fuel is toxic, we need to mitigate this.

Basically someone has to walk through all the worst case scenarios and ensure that everyone (and nature) remains safe or as safe as it is possible to be.

Post reply on HN