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U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#271

Post by TeMPOraL »

ashtonkem wrote: post #222
TeMPOraL wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> need to wash food containers out before recycling (...) used greasy pizza boxes with cheese stuck to the bottom are not recyclable yet a heck of a lot of people toss them in the cardboard recycle bin. People are not being informed about it clearly enough. Not that it would change much, except discouraging most people from sorting trash. Beyond being a significant burden, having individuals washing their trash is ju…

I’m less in the “people need to be informed” camp and more in the “products need to be designed for easy recycling” camp. If we want to recycle pizza boxes as a society, there needs to be a grease absorbing layer that’s clearly marked for the trash, and a recyclable layer with clear instructions. A great example of this is Siggi’s single serving yogurt cups. The paper label is easily separated from the plastic body,…

To clarify: I'm in your camp too. I just mentioned it because a lot of people don't know that washing recyclable containers before disposing of them is a thing.

> If we want to recycle pizza boxes as a society, there needs to be a grease absorbing layer that’s clearly marked for the trash, and a recyclable layer with clear instructions.

Agreed. And this needs to be built into the packaging, and not be a flimsy piece of paper the restaurant inserts so that the pizza itself doesn't stick to the box.

> A great example of this is Siggi’s single serving yogurt cups. The paper label is easily separated from the plastic body, with clear instructions that they’re meant to be separated for recycling into separate streams.

I've seen this trend and I like it. Paper label being separable also makes it easier to clean and reuse the cup itself. Containers from the yogurt brand we buy can survive a trip through a dishwasher, which helps. Unfortunately, most recyclable plastic containers are not like that.

> Expecting end consumers to stay up to date on this stuff is just a way for companies to avoid the responsibility of making better packaging.

Exactly. Plus, in this case, it's extremely wasteful.

I also blame the packaging problem on advertising/marketing being the cancer of modern society. Notice how professional equipment tends to come in simple cardboard boxes. None of the triple-layered plastic/paper/plastic + paint non-recyclable bullshit. Just straight cardboard and some anti-shock padding.

Companies need to start paying up front for end-of-life management of their products and packaging. It's the most market-friendly way to align incentives on the topic.

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#272

Post by TeMPOraL »

throwawayboise wrote: post #190
acjohnson55 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the middle class and upward, it's not common, outside of folks who are particularly frugal. The post-WWII American culture is extremely consumerist / materialistic.

It's also that it's just easier to go to Walmart or Target (or Amazon) and buy one and be done with it, than to spend the time hunting around garage sales or thrift stores for something they might not have. Unless you really need to save $10, time is way more valuable than money.

Of course, for immediate-need purchases, nothing beats going to the nearby store or ordering with delivery. But that's not how you handle getting second-hand stuff.

Second-hand stuff is easy to get when you know you need something (or will need it soon), but you're not pressed for time. At any given time, if you look for a second-hand $foo, you may not find it in your area, but there's a good chance you'll find it within a month or two. It's particularly easy with kid stuff - you have ~8 months of advance warning, and most kid items are only used for couple of months, so there's a steady stream of used stuff you can pick from, and a year later, start contributing to, as your kid grows out of their stuff.

What makes second-hand (especially free second-hand) so easy these days is Internet. To start, you want to find and follow three boards for your area: a) Craigslist/Gumtree/equivalent, b) a local giveaway/exchange group, and c) a local "spotted by the side of a trashcan" group. Put stuff you don't need on them, take stuff you need from them, and you're now part of the "reduce, reuse" flow - which is strictly better than "recycle". It doesn't take much time either; following b) and c) is something you do by scrolling through a feed for a minute.

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#273

Post by INTPenis »

logifail wrote: post #52
INTPenis wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the giant pacific garbage patch, and any island beach not maintained regularly will clearly tell you plastics end up in the ocean regardless. I think the only solution is global legislation forcing consumers and businesses to use alternatives.

> the giant pacific garbage patch Q: Do we know where the plastics in the pacific garbage patch actually come from?

Even if a lot of garbage can be traced to Asian countries (that might be because of currents into the pacific) there is still a massive problem with plastic elsewhere.

For example in a documentary with Simon Reeve where he tours the mediterranean he visits a conservation center for sea turtles. The staff there show him a bunch of plastic found inside the stomachs of two of their rescues and among the plastic found was a pasta wrapper.

So I think the type of plastic in the worlds oceans is completely dependent on how streams communicate into the ocean.

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#274

Post by llampx »

carstenhag wrote: post #86
im_down_w_otp wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Single use stuff seems easy enough to fix. What seems less obvious to me is what I experienced when shopping for a potty chair for our youngest there were dozens of options at just a single store for a big hunk of plastic that's only useful for a period of months. We ended up not buying one at all. I had a similar experience the last time I was at CES and was deep into the "South Hall" where there's kiosk after displ…

The way most people in Germany would solve this (we need a potty for some months) is buying it 2nd/3rd/4th hand. Is that not common where you live (I guess USA)?

I've lived in the US and now live in Germany, and cannot cosign to this comment. eBay Kleinanzeigen is full of scams, and the side effect of people hanging on to stuff until it breaks is that most of the stuff on the classifieds is half-broken crap that they just want to get rid of. So if people can afford to buy new, they do buy new.

The hidden lede is that Germans are not as rich as some would believe, with fairly low salaries, high home prices and high taxes, and a low level of wealth compared to GDP. Much of the German wealth is held by heirs of big dinosaur companies.

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#275

Post by nikisweeting »

CheezeIt wrote: post #270
nikisweeting wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, the vast majority is trash to begin with or ends up as trash. Only a fraction ends up recycled.

Plastic bags don’t go in the recycling, they go in the trash bin.

It's not a matter of any one thing, the vast majority of "recycling" is trash to begin with, or ends as trash without being recycled.

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#276

Post by ryathal »

ashtonkem wrote: post #222
TeMPOraL wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> need to wash food containers out before recycling (...) used greasy pizza boxes with cheese stuck to the bottom are not recyclable yet a heck of a lot of people toss them in the cardboard recycle bin. People are not being informed about it clearly enough. Not that it would change much, except discouraging most people from sorting trash. Beyond being a significant burden, having individuals washing their trash is ju…

I’m less in the “people need to be informed” camp and more in the “products need to be designed for easy recycling” camp. If we want to recycle pizza boxes as a society, there needs to be a grease absorbing layer that’s clearly marked for the trash, and a recyclable layer with clear instructions. A great example of this is Siggi’s single serving yogurt cups. The paper label is easily separated from the plastic body,…

A better solution for pizza boxes is an industrial composting collection that can take all food scraps and food soiled paper products. instead of adding something that may end up plastic or wax coated trash, we can reduce materials used and "recycle" in a different way.

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#277

Post by daddylongstroke »

gnicholas wrote: post #212
acjohnson55 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the middle class and upward, it's not common, outside of folks who are particularly frugal. The post-WWII American culture is extremely consumerist / materialistic.

My experience is different. Almost everyone we know gets most of their baby stuff secondhand. They get a bunch of stuff when the baby is born, from older friends with kids. Then they get specific items off NextDoor/Facebook/Craigslist. I don't know that we'd get a potty used, but we did get used infant bathtubs, which is about the same from a hygienic perspective.

I agree. All of our friends and us get "kids stuff", as well as most of my furniture 2nd hand. My kids are 12 and 14, and outside of certain shoes, they've never worn brand new clothes (same for me and my spouse when we were kids). Why buy when your friends or siblings with older or bigger kids are looking to get rid of clothes as soon as their kids outgrow them? Come to think of it, I don't remember the last time I bought new clothes myself.

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#278

Post by acdha »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #159
jeffbee wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most American consumers who find themselves at the local TJs or Whole Foods should probably feel way, way worse about driving to the store than about little plastic spoons.

I’m not bicycling in 20 degrees Fahrenheit to shop for a family of 4, bags strapped to a bike. And there’s no public transportation. I think I’ma pretty regular American consumer. So I should feel guilty about this according to you?

Maybe not guilty but reflect on the many costs involved and try to lend your political voice to improvements. We burn a ton of fossil fuel moving people around with 10-20x their weight in metal; EVs can improve that somewhat but even if you can charge your renewably they still have a substantial CO2 cost in their manufacturing and the massive roads needed due to the intrinsic inefficiency of private vehicles. The associated low-density lifestyle similarly adds a big energy cost and makes transit hard to build. There are also many deaths and life-altering injuries annually, not to mention the way everything is made more expensive to subsidize vehicle storage in addition to the direct costs many people struggle with.

All of that exists because the system is built to encourage it, and building something more sustainable means lots of us need to start calling for major changes. I think it's reasonable to worry about that even if you didn't personally create the problem.

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#279

Post by Causality1 »

madaxe_again wrote: post #268
madaxe_again wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anywhere outside of a city centre, according to many. I live in a rural area. People drive out here from the city to dump their old appliances in the forests of this “junk land”. Almost every road corner has a pile of refrigerators and washing machines next to it. My current refrigerator was rescued from one of these impromptu landfills. Nothing at all wrong with it, just five years old, so it’s trash. Just because y…

Ok. I guess if you’re all of the view this is wrong, would you mind if I came and dumped stuff in your city apartment? It looks like junk to me.

I don't know why you decided someone saying the US has plenty of junk land must be talking about your home. I was referring to dry salt flats, abandoned strip mines, and the like. The vast amounts of space under major cities would also make good landfill volume.
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