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U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#81

Post by Hokusai »

Retric wrote: post #56
IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the US still operate landfills? Some or all EU countries have completely abandoned the practice. So that's just not a harm that matters, unlike some other ones. In any case, it'd be compounding the problem here, and rather bad economics at the same time. Plastics aren't that hard to collect/separate, especially if it's ok to be mixed with paper. They burn readily and, given high temperatures, cleanly, allowing t…

Yes, the US still has landfills as does Europe. “In 2018, 24% of all municipal waste generated in the EU was landfilled.” That said, incineration is a similar option that drastically lowers volume of waste, but still produced ash that ends up buried and vast amounts of CO2.

Source: https://ec.europa.eu/environment/topics/waste-and-recycling/...

The goal in the EU is to reduce it to 10% in 15 years.

The USA landfill was of 50% in 2018. Some more legislation is needed. https://www.epa.gov/facts-and-figures-about-materials-waste-...

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#82

Post by dmm »

INTPenis wrote: post #15

I believe it. But that doesn't mean we're innocent in the rest of the western world. One really cool improvement here in Sweden recently, besides "banning" plastic bags at supermarkets, was one store called ICA started selling their burger pattys in cardboard packaging. So the only plastic is a top foil that you peel off to open the package, the rest is cardboard. Pretty cool! That's one area where we're all guilty,…

> ICA started selling their burger pattys in cardboard packaging.

Fast food paper/cardboard packaging has a layer of PFAS containing compounds to make them grease-proof. And consumption of fast food is correlated with PFAS blood concentrations so it probably contaminates the food. Hopefully the packaging you're describing isn't, but...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/06/health/toxic-food-wrappers-pf...

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#83

Post by Swizec »

handrous wrote: post #68
Swizec wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Eh, they also choose big trucks so they'll win in a crash Eh this is where it gets really complicated. I used to be a car crash enthusiast as a kid (crash science, not crashing myself). The main thing I learned is that big cars are ridiculously unsafe. Especially american big cars. Long stopping distance, lots of inertia, bad on the moose test, ridiculous amounts of energy to dissipate/absorb in a crash. Terrible.…

Oh, agreed on small cars being much more nimble and so maybe more safe in practice . I am 100% sure that a lot of SUV and truck buyers are doing so because they perceive them as "winners" in crashes, though. Some also, and relatedly, like the better visibility (but what's that doing to everyone else's visibility? Oh well, who cares). Source: they'll just tell you, it's not a secret. (yes, of course, some people actua…

Ah if your argument was about what they say not what’s real, then yes I agree. My girlfriend says the same thing and refuses to believe me when I present engineering evidence.

Luckily we don’t need a car so it’s merely a theoretical debate.

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#84

Post by nikisweeting »

CheezeIt wrote: post #54
8note wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that a sensible phrase? The environment is everywhere.

Landfills aren’t everywhere.

Why not not focus on building more and better landfills then? Seems like a better solution that shipping trash long distances to other countries only to have it end up in the ocean.

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#85

Post by immortaljoe »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #62

I think we'll have to give up particular niceties about how we package things in the western world if we're to generate less trash, but it would come at the cost of removing illusions from the way we market products. Have you been to less developed countries? They just simply do not package some products. It removes a lot of the allure of buying particular things, but also generates less trash. Here's a simple exampl…

Totally agree, i moved from a developing country (India) to a developed country (Germany) and the amount of waste me and my partner generate in the latter is around 10x.

In India, we would buy produce without any packaging, you would pay by weight. Whereas in Germany, fruits, vegetables and even fresh leaves come pre packed in plastic. I know Germany has better recycling but the amount of plastic is crazy. Quite the shock for us.

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#86

Post by carstenhag »

im_down_w_otp wrote: post #77
jedberg wrote: post #27

This problem won't get fixed without legislation. Single use plastic is cheaper, so of course companies will use that if they can. Most people don't have the income to support "voting with their wallet", and even those who do don't always have the option. IF the best solution out there happens to use single use plastic, you're not going to opt for a worse solution just because it doesn't. And even if one company care…

Single use stuff seems easy enough to fix. What seems less obvious to me is what I experienced when shopping for a potty chair for our youngest there were dozens of options at just a single store for a big hunk of plastic that's only useful for a period of months. We ended up not buying one at all. I had a similar experience the last time I was at CES and was deep into the "South Hall" where there's kiosk after displ…

The way most people in Germany would solve this (we need a potty for some months) is buying it 2nd/3rd/4th hand. Is that not common where you live (I guess USA)?

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#87

Post by gambiting »

IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #50
Causality1 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also have to think in terms of actual harm. Considering the US has an absurd amount of junk land it can use for landfills, a single use plastic object that has 1/1000 the carbon emissions of the reusable alternative may be the best environmental choice.

Does the US still operate landfills? Some or all EU countries have completely abandoned the practice. So that's just not a harm that matters, unlike some other ones. In any case, it'd be compounding the problem here, and rather bad economics at the same time. Plastics aren't that hard to collect/separate, especially if it's ok to be mixed with paper. They burn readily and, given high temperatures, cleanly, allowing t…

>>Some or all EU countries have completely abandoned the practice.

Absolutely not true, glad you maybe live in a country where landfills are disappearing, but they will always exist in some form - even with burning where do you think the slag goes to? That's right, a normal landfill. Not everything can be burnt, and not everything can be recycled.

And definitely not "all" EU countries - Poland has normal landfills that take everything still, very few operational waste incenerators, and recycling is still unknown to a lot of people.

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#88

Post by Causality1 »

eastendguy wrote: post #74
Causality1 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also have to think in terms of actual harm. Considering the US has an absurd amount of junk land it can use for landfills, a single use plastic object that has 1/1000 the carbon emissions of the reusable alternative may be the best environmental choice.

> a single use plastic object that has 1/1000 the carbon emissions of the reusable alternative may be the best environmental choice. Is there any data that single use stuff (of any kind) creates less carbon emissions? I would expect it to be the other way around, except for some edge cases.

Yes, mostly because of the energy used in their creation. For example you have to reuse a cotton grocery bag 7100 times before you break even with plastic bags for carbon footprint.

https://www2.mst.dk/Udgiv/publications/2018/02/978-87-93614-...

You're probably not going to do that.

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#89

Post by dheera »

jedberg wrote: post #27

This problem won't get fixed without legislation. Single use plastic is cheaper, so of course companies will use that if they can. Most people don't have the income to support "voting with their wallet", and even those who do don't always have the option. IF the best solution out there happens to use single use plastic, you're not going to opt for a worse solution just because it doesn't. And even if one company care…

Also, we really, really need legislation to stop the ridiculousness of over-packaging. The other day I bought some case screws for my PC and they came in a goddamn "nice" foam-padded plastic case. That plastic case was then inside plastic wrap, then some plastic bubble wrap, and then a plastic Amazon mailer. That was completely unnecessary. The screws could have been in a recycled paper packet and thrown into a simple tiny cardboard box and it would have been fine.

https://i.imgur.com/WQYtcsF.jpg

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#90

Post by jeffbee »

ardit33 wrote: post #22

Pre pandemic, I'd go often to trader joe, and they would give samples. It was maybe a small bite of a food (ice cream, salat, or whatever else), and use a plastic fork for it. Just one bite, and you had to throw it out. It was more plastic than food. Whole Foods was the same. I think it is a crime against environment and I started feeling bad about it, and stopped taking samples when there were plastic utensils. It t…

Most American consumers who find themselves at the local TJs or Whole Foods should probably feel way, way worse about driving to the store than about little plastic spoons.
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