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Dollar stores make up nearly half of all new store openings in the U.S.

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Re: Dollar stores make up nearly half of all new store openings in the U.S.

#81

Post by tpmx »

tspike wrote: post #61
mumblemumble wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a part of me that wants to push back against this idea that fresh produce is synonymous with good nutrition. Frozen produce - which the dollar stores in my area do carry - tends to be more nutritious nowadays. It is also much easier to prepare, and, assuming you have access to a freezer, is less susceptible to spoilage. And if your food preparation options don't amount to much more than a microwave oven, or y…

It's worth pointing out the difference between frozen produce (which, as you say, is nutritionally sound) and frozen TV dinners, which often contain multiple times the daily recommended intake of sodium and typically have miniscule portions of vegetables.

> which often contain multiple times the daily recommended intake of sodium

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/its-time-to-end-t...

Classic article.

It's Time to End the War on Salt - The zealous drive by politicians to limit our salt intake has little basis in science

Re: Dollar stores make up nearly half of all new store openings in the U.S.

#82

Post by the-dude »

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #4

Good article and discussion about the economics of these "Leeches of the poor": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27650477 TLDR: The products in Dollar Stores aren't 'cheap' in the sense that they cost less than other stores per unit - its just that they're (mostly) packaged into smaller units that people living paycheck to paycheck can afford.

If I am not mistaken this strategy is used by large multinationals in developing countries.

For example, Unilever selling the same washing powder in India, just in miniscule packages.

Re: Dollar stores make up nearly half of all new store openings in the U.S.

#83

Post by nicoburns »

sokoloff wrote: post #59
safog wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After a couple of levels of indirection, I think the whole argument hinges on one anecdote. It might indicate a general pattern, but no actual authoritative sources back it up. Original Article quotes "growing evidence suggests these stores are not merely a byproduct of economic distress. They’re a cause of it. In small towns and urban neighborhoods alike, dollar stores are triggering the closure of grocery stores, e…

Dollar General comes in and offers local consumers a bargain that local consumers strongly prefer. Accordingly, local consumers vote with their feet. Unless the master plan is to run competitors out of town and then change to "Two Dollar General", it seems like Dollar General is good for consumers (at least if you judge by consumers' own revealed preferences).

What is good for consumers may not be good for communities though. I'd argue that there is significant harm perpetuated on economies by the migration of wealth away from wages and small-scale profits of local businesspeople into the profits of large companies.

Re: Dollar stores make up nearly half of all new store openings in the U.S.

#84

Post by freemint »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #74
MattGaiser wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem as I understand it is that products aren’t priced in a grocery store to all have the same margin. So the prepared foods and toiletries get marked up to make up for low margins on fresh fruit. Wealthier customers are fine with this as they want to not have to make two trips and they will pay for the fruit. Dollar stores ditch the fresh stuff and just take a lower margin on the toiletries and prepared food…

The root problem is the populace being too poor to afford fresh fruit. Blaming dollar stores is a waste of time.

If we have a semi functional system and a change made to it worsens the populations health it is more reasonable to stop this change and reverse over hoping for revolutionary change.

If some company has a buisness model that has negative externalities they should be taxed more for it. When taxing is not responsible because this would hit the poor dispropoertionally the buisness model should be banned.

Re: Dollar stores make up nearly half of all new store openings in the U.S.

#85

Post by throwaway0a5e »

travisgriggs wrote: post #65
mithr wrote: post #45

Brings to mind Vimes' "'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness", from Terry Pratchett's Discworld: "The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and…

I would give 50 upvotes if I could for the Pratchett reference. And a good explanation to boot.

And I would give 50 downvotes if I could.

The only thing that quote is good for this century is letting upscale consumers pat themselves on the back. Goods are so much cheaper than when that quote was written that using cheaper alternatives and treating them as disposable is often times cheaper in the long run for many classes of goods and usage patterns.

These sorts of tropes and rules of thumb that have been stripped of all nuance and packaged up nice and neatly so that the lowest common denominator consumer on the internet can read, understand and press the up-vote button are good for little more than achieving said upvotes. When subject to the complexities of real life they are wrong as often as they are right. You may as well toss a coin. There are unfortunately no rules of thumb you can follow that will outperform even a minimal application of critical thought.

Re: Dollar stores make up nearly half of all new store openings in the U.S.

#86

Post by nicoburns »

jstummbillig wrote: post #71
safog wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After a couple of levels of indirection, I think the whole argument hinges on one anecdote. It might indicate a general pattern, but no actual authoritative sources back it up. Original Article quotes "growing evidence suggests these stores are not merely a byproduct of economic distress. They’re a cause of it. In small towns and urban neighborhoods alike, dollar stores are triggering the closure of grocery stores, e…

Interesting. Do you know if Dollar General is cheaper per calorie when talking actual ready made meals? The linked article talks about worse price per ounce, which might mean something very different.

Per calorie probably isn't a great measure. Lots of high-calorie but nutrient-poor foods will score highly by that measure.

Re: Dollar stores make up nearly half of all new store openings in the U.S.

#87

Post by mumblemumble »

sokoloff wrote: post #59
safog wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After a couple of levels of indirection, I think the whole argument hinges on one anecdote. It might indicate a general pattern, but no actual authoritative sources back it up. Original Article quotes "growing evidence suggests these stores are not merely a byproduct of economic distress. They’re a cause of it. In small towns and urban neighborhoods alike, dollar stores are triggering the closure of grocery stores, e…

Dollar General comes in and offers local consumers a bargain that local consumers strongly prefer. Accordingly, local consumers vote with their feet. Unless the master plan is to run competitors out of town and then change to "Two Dollar General", it seems like Dollar General is good for consumers (at least if you judge by consumers' own revealed preferences).

It seems like, if this sort of thing is actually happening, then, when we strip away all the specifics, which seem to be a bit emotionally charged, we're left with a clean little fable about capitalism?

"A long time ago, there was one store, and prices were high. Then a second store came to town, and prices were low. Eventually, one of the stores closed, so now we have one store again, and prices are high."

Re: Dollar stores make up nearly half of all new store openings in the U.S.

#88

Post by nicoburns »

mumblemumble wrote: post #75
tspike wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth pointing out the difference between frozen produce (which, as you say, is nutritionally sound) and frozen TV dinners, which often contain multiple times the daily recommended intake of sodium and typically have miniscule portions of vegetables.

Sure. But, if you lack the ability to make good use of frozen produce, then that maybe isn't a realistic option, anyway. Then you might be looking at something more like a choice between TV dinner and McDonald's.

How can you have the ability to cook a frozen TV dinner, but the not to ability to cook frozen vegetables?

Re: Dollar stores make up nearly half of all new store openings in the U.S.

#89

Post by toast0 »

blendergeek wrote: post #47
jcims wrote: post #16

It's not clear to me what the problem is that the article is outlining. The Dollar General near me has the exact same brands as you would find in any larger retail establishment, they just have found a way to stock the 80% that folks typically need. They are filling a niche between the gas station convenience store and traditional grocery/big box retail. They don't have a produce section, just a bit of fruit. Is that…

The real issue is that all value created by the likes of Dollar General leaves the community. If the owner of the store is in the community, those dollars will more likely be spent withing the community. The increased tax value on the owner's home will be in the community. With Dollar General, all of that leaves. Nobody in a Dolllar General is making much more than the proprietors of the old local store were making.…

The margin may have flowed in circles, but grocery margins are low, so most of the money leaves the community anyway.

A community needs a way to import money, not just a way to export less. That could be a locally owned store, but only if it's attractive enough to get clients outside of its community.

Re: Dollar stores make up nearly half of all new store openings in the U.S.

#90

Post by zhdc1 »

mc32 wrote: post #10

It looks like a couple of things going on: 1. We have more people without much disposable income (which is composed of two populations: poor immigrants with few marketable skills, and two, poor Americans left behind due to shipping MFG overseas --going on for a while, jump-started by MFN status in the 90s). 2. People want cheap stuff. It's unfortunate. It means more disposable crap going into the landfill. Save up an…

> 1. We have more people without much disposable income

In absolute terms, or just on average? This may be the case simply because the US population went from 250 to 320 million people over that time, but household disposal income is up considerably as well.

An alternative answer may be that Dollar stores have very low franchise fees (~$50K, from one site I looked at) and low inventory costs. This, along with cheap commercial rent, makes it an attractive option for non-tech people who want to start a retail business but don't have a lot of money saved up.

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