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Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

homelandsecuritynewswire.com

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Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#251

Post by dang »

emacsen wrote: post #53
zd123 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you got a citation that Hamas is on a religious mission to "kill all non-muslims". From what I have read and understood, it's primary focus is to resist the Zionists which repeatedly encroach on Palestinian land. Imo, making a comparison to ISIS is a tad bit lazy given the historical buildup to the problems in Israel. Just because a bunch of guys have big beards and shout in Arabic doesn't really make them equiv…

> Have you got a citation that Hamas is on a religious mission to "kill all non-muslims". Read their own literature, read Wikipedia, read any source on Hamas. This isn't a hidden agenda, this is their stated goal. > it's primary focus is to resist the Zionists which repeatedly encroach on Palestinian land. I addressed the issue of "Palestinian" in the previous comments. There are extreme Zionists and there are people…

Please stop adding to flamewars, and don't post like this to HN in the future, regardless of which side you're on or how right you are or feel you are.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#252

Post by dang »

azth wrote: post #66
emacsen wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have you got a citation that Hamas is on a religious mission to "kill all non-muslims". Read their own literature, read Wikipedia, read any source on Hamas. This isn't a hidden agenda, this is their stated goal. > it's primary focus is to resist the Zionists which repeatedly encroach on Palestinian land. I addressed the issue of "Palestinian" in the previous comments. There are extreme Zionists and there are people…

> support the idea of a safe place for Jews Make a "safe space" for them in America or Europe. Don't occupy and rape foreign lands.

Please stop adding to flamewars, and don't post like this to HN in the future, regardless of which side you're on or how right you are or feel you are.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#253

Post by dang »

jessaustin wrote: post #94
azth wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> support the idea of a safe place for Jews Make a "safe space" for them in America or Europe. Don't occupy and rape foreign lands.

But... it's in the bible! John Hagee wants to see Armageddon! Never mind the fact that most modern Israelis (and all of their leaders) are of European rather than Semitic descent...

Please stop adding to flamewars, and don't post like this to HN in the future, regardless of which side you're on or how right you are or feel you are.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#254

Post by seigando »

zd123 wrote: post #52
emacsen wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are religious extremists who believe that the entire land should be free of anyone whose religious beliefs do not match theirs and they don't mind killing innocent people, including their own people- women, children, etc. to further that goal. The fact that some countries such as Russia and Turkey won't label them as terrorists doesn't change their beliefs, nor does it change how dangerous they are not only to I…

" they don't mind killing innocent people, including their own people- women, children, etc. to further that goal." I guess the only difference with the Israeli government is that the Israeli government manages to successfully avoid killing their own citizens. Let's be real, they're both as bad as each other, just one side has a prettier face.

This is insane, antisemitic moral equivalency.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#255

Post by skinkestek »

RobertoG wrote: post #237
skinkestek wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's say there's 2 articles about settlers taking land, and 10 articles about startups and tech companies in Israe I'm talking about almost every news outlet writing "Israel bombed Gaza" and only one being nuanced enough to mention "Israel bombed Gaza after n hundred rockets crossed the border during the last 24 hours." Settlers taking land is also interesting. It took quite a while before someone (and none of the…

>>"Settlers taking land is also interesting. It took quite a while before someone (and none of the big ones) cared to mention that the latest dispute was over Jewish owned land that was stolen by Jordan during their short management of east Jerusalem and sold to Arabs. " I think I remember reading about that. Are those the properties acquired by an extremist Jewish organization, from the original Jewish owners, in or…

That might be yet another twist to this story.

I'm not that into it. I probably only appear knowledgeable because I have read a bit beyond the headlines and because I am as biased as many others.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#256

Post by joelbluminator »

luffapi wrote: post #246
bzbarsky wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It has nothing to do with anti-semitism. Anti-semitism has nothing to do with the movement to create a homeland for the Jewish people (which then tried to garner the support of various governments, which is where the Balfour Declaration comes in)? It has everything to do with it. Were there various colonialism-related issues involved too, of course. But pretending like that's the entire story is quite disingenuous.

> create a homeland for the Jewish people This is clearly colonialism by definition. It’s the entire story because there is no justification for oppressing and colonizing others, even if the people doing it also face discrimination. It’s not an excuse and shouldn’t be part of the conversation.

Its really not though, the declaration never went into specifics on what parts will become Jewish exactly for this reason. It said a Jewish home IN Plaestine, not that all of Palestine will become Jewish. And even if it is "the definition of colonialism", what does it have to do with anything now?

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#257

Post by bjourne »

skinkestek wrote: post #239
bjourne wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm talking about almost every news outlet writing "Israel bombed Gaza" and only one being nuanced enough to mention "Israel bombed Gaza after n hundred rockets crossed the border during the last 24 hours." It goes both ways. I haven't seen the headline "Palestinian militias shell Israeli targets in response to Israel's attempts to ethnically cleanse illegally occupied Palestinian territory" either. > It took quite…

> Has anyone of them mentioned the massive irony in Israel returning lands stolen from Jews while at the same time keeping all the land it itself stole from Palestinians? To the degree that land has been stolen recently except by Jordan it was by UN and the British I think. Israeli land was either bought, traded, given by UN, won in defensive wars (and most of that have been given back in return for peace). You could…

During the 1948 Palestine war, Jewish troops ethnically cleansed the territory that became the State of Israel of Arab Palestinians. The land and property owned by those Arab Palestinians was confiscated by the state and handed out to Jewish immigrants. Israel does not believe that any of the land or property it confiscated should be returned to its former Arab Palestinian owners.

At the same time, property owned by Jews in the West Bank was confiscated by Jordanian authorities and given to Arab Palestinian refugees. In 1970, three years after Israel had taken the West Bank from Jordan, it enacted a law which stated that all property confiscated by Jordan should be returned to their original Jewish owners.

This is what I meant by "massive irony" but maybe it is just hypocrisy or racism.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#258

Post by mthoms »

havelhovel wrote: post #232
ohashi wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article makes a pretty good reason why it's aimed at the state. The potentially close relationship between private companies and the state and how intelligence is/was likely shared between them. If that's true, NSO Group is acting as an agent of the state - thus Israel would be spying on France and caught doing it. Thus the anger directed at the state level, as well as the company and governments. A lot of the go…

Yet those reasons are circumstantial and unverified claims, whereas we know that Morocco spied on France. If, and that is an if, Israel received intelligence as a result, Morocco is still the country that crossed that line. The framing makes no sense. Why is a third party, Israel, limiting fallout instead of Morocco?

Because Israel is generally thought of as an ally to the west.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#259

Post by poisonarena »

dang wrote: post #248
poisonarena wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're missing the point, and putting words in my mouth. Israeli hacking criticism is not anti-semitism, and thats not what I meant. But the thousands of articles coming out every week criticizing Israel are largely motivated to destroy the countries image. The antisemitism is related and undeniable as a side to all of this.

Please stop adding to flamewars, and don't post like this to HN in the future, regardless of which side you're on or how right you are or feel you are. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I am Israeli, and when I see blatant misinformation being brigaded in the tech community that I am a part of, about my country, I feel the need to respond. It is actually stressful to respond, but I feel the need to because I don't think the moderation on these Israeli threads is enough. And regarding the guidelines the posters who are targeting my comments have no problems being rude, patronizing, and breaking guidelines.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#260

Post by AzzieElbab »

tempodox wrote: post #161
pulse7 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't Arabs also "semitic people" [1]? (Since Ishmael and Abraham are also descendants of Shem...). In this case "antisemitic" would also mean "against Arabs"... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people

You are right, there are Jews who aren't Semites an there are Semites who aren't Jews. The term “anti-Semitism” came up near the end of the 19th century [1] when it was all the rage to find scientific-sounding words for whatever you do or sell. “Anti-Semitism” sells better than plain “hatred of Jews”. I for one wouldn't give racists the satisfaction of using their own choice for cloaking their prejudice and stupidity…

Languages are Semitic, people are not. These categories are outdated to the extreme.
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