Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal • Hacker News Board

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#231

Post by seoaeu » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

boomskats wrote: post #213

seoaeu wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure the "terrorist sympathizers" label has absolutely nothing to do with the same people leveling those criticisms also being rather sympathetic towards the people committing terror attacks against Israelis...

So just to be clear, your response to the criticism that 'Israeli propagandists describe anyone who opposes Israeli war crimes or anyone that critiques their continued colonization of Palestinians as terrorist sympathizers'... is to label anyone criticising those Israeli propagandists a terrorist sympathizer?

No, plenty of critics aren't terrorist sympathizers. Some critics are openly sympathetic to Hamas and Co.

Barring any context to the contrary, I'm naturally going to assume anyone complaining about being accused of being a terrorist sympathizer as belonging to the latter group. (It seems easy enough to clear up confusion by just saying "I oppose Hamas")

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#232

Post by havelhovel » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 4:58 PM UTC

ohashi wrote: post #189

byteman wrote: post #75

Isn't it a bit weird that all of the criticism is pointed at the state in which a private company made this technology and none of the criticism is pointed at the actual states that bought and used it?

The article makes a pretty good reason why it's aimed at the state. The potentially close relationship between private companies and the state and how intelligence is/was likely shared between them. If that's true, NSO Group is acting as an agent of the state - thus Israel would be spying on France and caught doing it. Thus the anger directed at the state level, as well as the company and governments. A lot of the go…

Yet those reasons are circumstantial and unverified claims, whereas we know that Morocco spied on France. If, and that is an if, Israel received intelligence as a result, Morocco is still the country that crossed that line. The framing makes no sense. Why is a third party, Israel, limiting fallout instead of Morocco?

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#233

Post by azth » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 5:00 PM UTC

seoaeu wrote: post #201

jessaustin wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But... it's in the bible! John Hagee wants to see Armageddon! Never mind the fact that most modern Israelis (and all of their leaders) are of European rather than Semitic descent...

...actually most Israelis are of middle eastern descent

No they're not. Most came from Eastern Europe.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#234

Post by poisonarena » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 5:03 PM UTC

zd123 wrote: post #89

poisonarena wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about Hamas's charter? https://fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/880818.htm " Israel, by virtue of its being Jewish and of having a Jewish population, defies Islam and the Muslims. "Let the eyes of the cowards not fall asleep." " I posted it above and was downvoted. This quote, and the rest of their charter is filled with crazy stuff.

I already replied to your comment above: Article Thirty Six "It will never set out against any Muslims or against the non-Muslims who make peace with it, here or anywhere else. It will only be of help to all associations and organizations which act against the Zionist enemy and those who revolve in its orbit." It's clear you are pushing some sort of narrative here, rather than objectively looking at the facts. I woul…

Ignoring that you are being patronizing and everything you wrote above could be said about you, but the difference, is I am not feigning "objectivity" like you or pretending to be neutral. Also your out of context quote doesn't magically cancel mine. I didn't write Hamas's charter, and why you are defending it, is all too obvious.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#235

Post by poisonarena » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 5:03 PM UTC

croes wrote: post #113

poisonarena wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not weird at all, given the recent uptick in anti-israel sentiments in the left, and uptick of antisemitism worldwide

I get it. Calling out chinese, russian and north korean hacking = fighting cyber terrorism. Calling out israeli hacking = antisemitism

you're missing the point, and putting words in my mouth. Israeli hacking criticism is not anti-semitism, and thats not what I meant. But the thousands of articles coming out every week criticizing Israel are largely motivated to destroy the countries image. The antisemitism is related and undeniable as a side to all of this.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#236

Post by joelbluminator » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 5:04 PM UTC

ohashi wrote: post #188

joelbluminator wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well from an Israeli point of view how is this wrong then? Maintaining a good relationship with Saudi Arabia is a game changer for Israel.

It could become wrong if they lose the support of the west. Imagine the US and EU giving up on Israel. It's a multi dimensional issue and playing nice with their neighbors may be advantageous if nobody knows (publicly). But if they do and there are bigger more important relationships (namely US) start to be put at risk, it could be the wrong move.

> Imagine the US and EU giving up on Israel

That could happen regardless of what Israel does. I mean if the U.S or EU decides that Israel is a colonial entity like Apartheid SA, that's not going to be because some Israeli cyber startup selling a tool. The hard left doesn't really care what Israel does now, the very idea of Israel of Israel existing is a cross between colonialism and white privilege to them. But in the mean time Israel gain actual strategic relations with countries like Saudi Arabia that mean a lot.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#237

Post by RobertoG » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

skinkestek wrote: post #169

HappyDreamer wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP: > > Israel is written about, almost always negatively, on a daily basis on all major newspapers You could say that about the CCP (Chinese Communist Party) as well or the dictators in Saudi Arabia. Sometimes there's a well founded reason for criticizing the state in a country. That does not mean the ones who criticize the Israeli state or the CCP, would think that everyone in Israel or China are bad people. P: > s…

> Let's say there's 2 articles about settlers taking land, and 10 articles about startups and tech companies in Israe I'm talking about almost every news outlet writing "Israel bombed Gaza" and only one being nuanced enough to mention "Israel bombed Gaza after n hundred rockets crossed the border during the last 24 hours." Settlers taking land is also interesting. It took quite a while before someone (and none of the…

>>"Settlers taking land is also interesting. It took quite a while before someone (and none of the big ones) cared to mention that the latest dispute was over Jewish owned land that was stolen by Jordan during their short management of east Jerusalem and sold to Arabs. "

I think I remember reading about that. Are those the properties acquired by an extremist Jewish organization, from the original Jewish owners, in order to be able to legally evict the non-Jewish people living there?

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#238

Post by DSingularity » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 5:14 PM UTC

yyyk wrote: post #227

DSingularity wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow! How do you lump in Qatar with Saudi Arabia? Please point us to one time where Qatar did something last heinous as Saudi thugs chopping up a Saudi journalist at the behest of the crown prince.

>Please point us to one time where Qatar did something last heinous as Saudi Their treatment of "guest workers" (de facto almost slaves) is significantly worse than Saudi killing a single person. Not only due to numbers affected (the Guardian counted 6,500 deaths). It's that, we expect repressive regimes to kill their opponents but when their acts are turned against truly helpless and unrelated people it's even worse…

Workers rights is a separate discussion and one in which the entire gulf region is shamefully criminal.

I asked about the unparalleled brutality of a Crown Prince ordering the dismemberment of a journalist. Remember, this is a person who we host in the White House to shake hands with a smiling president — it matters that the whole world knows he ordered the killing and that the whole world continues to look the other way. Imagine how he will deal with dissidents for the next decade?

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#239

Post by skinkestek » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 5:14 PM UTC

bjourne wrote: post #186

skinkestek wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's say there's 2 articles about settlers taking land, and 10 articles about startups and tech companies in Israe I'm talking about almost every news outlet writing "Israel bombed Gaza" and only one being nuanced enough to mention "Israel bombed Gaza after n hundred rockets crossed the border during the last 24 hours." Settlers taking land is also interesting. It took quite a while before someone (and none of the…

> I'm talking about almost every news outlet writing "Israel bombed Gaza" and only one being nuanced enough to mention "Israel bombed Gaza after n hundred rockets crossed the border during the last 24 hours." It goes both ways. I haven't seen the headline "Palestinian militias shell Israeli targets in response to Israel's attempts to ethnically cleanse illegally occupied Palestinian territory" either. > It took quite…

> Has anyone of them mentioned the massive irony in Israel returning lands stolen from Jews while at the same time keeping all the land it itself stole from Palestinians?

To the degree that land has been stolen recently except by Jordan it was by UN and the British I think.

Israeli land was either bought, traded, given by UN, won in defensive wars (and most of that have been given back in return for peace).

You could say that the land that was gained in defensive wars is stolen even if it was a defensive war, but I think that becomes unreasonable - especially since Israel has proven that they are willing to give back such land for a real, lasting peace agreement, and also since some of the land represents a massive advantage for a hostile neighbor.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#240

Post by emkoemko » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 5:16 PM UTC

raxxorrax wrote: post #125

zd123 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I already replied to your comment above: Article Thirty Six "It will never set out against any Muslims or against the non-Muslims who make peace with it, here or anywhere else. It will only be of help to all associations and organizations which act against the Zionist enemy and those who revolve in its orbit." It's clear you are pushing some sort of narrative here, rather than objectively looking at the facts. I woul…

You can deny it, but there is a severe problem with antisemitism among Hamas and the Palestinian population. Even in kids because they learn it in school.

but its okay for the other side to do the same? if not worse because they have the power and control.