Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal • Hacker News Board

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#161

Post by tempodox » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 1:53 PM UTC

pulse7 wrote: post #116

jessaustin wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Terrorist sympathizer" is a milder slander than the one they really like to use for critics of Israel's actions, "antisemitic".

Aren't Arabs also "semitic people" [1]? (Since Ishmael and Abraham are also descendants of Shem...). In this case "antisemitic" would also mean "against Arabs"... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people

You are right, there are Jews who aren't Semites an there are Semites who aren't Jews. The term “anti-Semitism” came up near the end of the 19th century [1] when it was all the rage to find scientific-sounding words for whatever you do or sell. “Anti-Semitism” sells better than plain “hatred of Jews”. I for one wouldn't give racists the satisfaction of using their own choice for cloaking their prejudice and stupidity in pseudo-science but the term seems to have taken hold everywhere.

[1]: https://www.britannica.com/topic/anti-Semitism

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#162

Post by luffapi » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 1:53 PM UTC

bzbarsky wrote: post #156

luffapi wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Balfour Declaration was well before WWII. Israel was always a colonization project.

Anti-semitism, including of the extremely violent variety, did not start with WWII. The Balfour Declaration was a response to Jews wanting to get the hell out of a Europe that hated them and liked to go kill them every so often.

The Balfour Declaration was a request from a banker so powerful that he could order the British government to create a new colony. It has nothing to do with anti-semitism.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#163

Post by rbanffy » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 1:57 PM UTC

classified wrote: post #43

pulse7 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Our clients only use the software against terrorists and criminals" => So this means that French PM Macron is a terrorist or criminal - for somebody who built this software...

Circular arguments are so convenient. And apparently "terrorists" and "criminals" (by whose definition?) have no rights whatsoever, so whatever you do to them cannot be wrong.

I'd just like to remind everyone that America's Founding Fathers would be labeled terrorists by the British Crown were the word in common use back then.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#164

Post by rbanffy » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 2:00 PM UTC

nindalf wrote: post #59

I’m not surprised that all statements from the Israeli government are filled with nothing. “We need to understand what happened” means “sorry not sorry”. This spyware is invaluable for the Israeli government because they have something that repressive Arab regimes want. These regimes can’t be bought with money, because some of them like Saudi Arabia and UAE have plenty of money. Israel needs friends and this is a gre…

> provide a way for these tinpot dictators to cement their power.

That and also have backdoors into their clients' intelligence gathering. Knowing who is a good potential enemy of a state is always handy.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#165

Post by fmajid » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 2:05 PM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #21

vmception wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, the main benefit/issue is that spyware and exploits are not seen as “munitions” anywhere, and as such, escape regulation or meaningful export controls.

Actually, in Israel it is. Every Pegasus contract was cleared by the cabinet, and possibly Bibi himself.

And quite possibly in secret too, without the knowledge of the cabinet. Bennett and Gantz may well be saying the truth when they say they didn't know.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#166

Post by peteretep » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 2:07 PM UTC

vmception wrote: post #18

peteretep wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would he actually know or have a way to find out why Macron secrets are being traded to Pegasus clients, or even reign in the spyware industry at all? I don’t think this would pass muster as an excuse if Israeli industry had been selling missiles to Morocco for use against France. Curious to see if it ends up being treated the same.

Right, the main benefit/issue is that spyware and exploits are not seen as “munitions” anywhere, and as such, escape regulation or meaningful export controls.

I think you’re right, but I think this will change

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#167

Post by briefcomment » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 2:09 PM UTC

emacsen wrote: post #16

l33tbro wrote: post #2

The genie might be out of the bottle here for them. A lot of investigative journalism now coming out (1) which shows that Pegasus is really just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Israeli spyware. (1) https://www.mintpressnews.com/meet-toka-the-most-dangerous-i...

As others have mentioned, the source you're citing is at best highly questionable. The amount of leaps the article makes is just out of this world, mostly that this Israeli company has Israelis involved, and that Israelis who have experience with mathematics and computer work also serve their mandatory military service in an intelligence unit of the military rather than as foot soldiers and that an Israeli company ha…

So Pegasus is a non-story right, since she's been reporting on that for years now?

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#168

Post by HappyDreamer » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 2:10 PM UTC

skinkestek wrote: post #157

joelbluminator wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Guess what seemingly everyone in media/politics avoid? Who avoids it? Israel is written about, almost always negatively, on a daily basis on all major newspapers. Care to say which media outlet avoids "criticizing" Israel other than a few unimportant right wing outlets?

I have the same observations as you from Norway. From what I hear from those who have been here longer than me it has been like this since the 60ies or 70ies so it is not a new thing either.

GP:

> > Israel is written about, almost always negatively, on a daily basis on all major newspapers

You could say that about the CCP (Chinese Communist Party) as well or the dictators in Saudi Arabia. Sometimes there's a well founded reason for criticizing the state in a country.

That does not mean the ones who criticize the Israeli state or the CCP, would think that everyone in Israel or China are bad people.

P:

> same observations as you

There's a cognitive bias to notice negative sounding things written about one's own "soccer team", but not notice positive or neutral things so much.

Let's say there's 1 article about settlers taking land, 1 about the Israeli state selling suicide bomber drones to Azerbaijan, and 15 articles about vaccination, tech companies, the Pride Parade, other things -- maybe you wouldn't remember the 15 latter, only keep the 1 + 1 former in mind.

(This is as expected b.t.w. thinking about evolution and hunter gatherer tribes long ago)

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#169

Post by skinkestek » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 2:16 PM UTC

HappyDreamer wrote: post #168

skinkestek wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the same observations as you from Norway. From what I hear from those who have been here longer than me it has been like this since the 60ies or 70ies so it is not a new thing either.

GP: > > Israel is written about, almost always negatively, on a daily basis on all major newspapers You could say that about the CCP (Chinese Communist Party) as well or the dictators in Saudi Arabia. Sometimes there's a well founded reason for criticizing the state in a country. That does not mean the ones who criticize the Israeli state or the CCP, would think that everyone in Israel or China are bad people. P: > s…

> Let's say there's 2 articles about settlers taking land, and 10 articles about startups and tech companies in Israe

I'm talking about almost every news outlet writing "Israel bombed Gaza" and only one being nuanced enough to mention "Israel bombed Gaza after n hundred rockets crossed the border during the last 24 hours."

Settlers taking land is also interesting. It took quite a while before someone (and none of the big ones) cared to mention that the latest dispute was over Jewish owned land that was stolen by Jordan during their short management of east Jerusalem and sold to Arabs.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#170

Post by seoaeu » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 2:27 PM UTC

pulse7 wrote: post #116

jessaustin wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Terrorist sympathizer" is a milder slander than the one they really like to use for critics of Israel's actions, "antisemitic".

Aren't Arabs also "semitic people" [1]? (Since Ishmael and Abraham are also descendants of Shem...). In this case "antisemitic" would also mean "against Arabs"... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people

Sometimes words don't mean exactly what their etymology suggests. So I'm sorry but, objecting to using the world 'antisemitism' to refer to "anti-Jewish racism" comes across as trying to deny Jews the ability to describe their own oppression