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Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

homelandsecuritynewswire.com

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Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#151

Post by mytailorisrich »

vmception wrote: post #3

Naftali Bennett‘s first real test. Would he actually know or have a way to find out why Macron secrets are being traded to Pegasus clients, or even reign in the spyware industry at all? Would the fragile coalition be able to handle this PM doing anything about it, or is this so far outside of their priority list that it doesn't matter and there is room for real reform?

I don't find anything extraordinary in the fact that foreign governments spy on Macron. In fact I would expect France to do the same to other countries, and I'm sure they do.

These things make headlines when they are found by the public but they really are business as usual among governments.

If anything, this only reflects badly on the French services themselves if the President's phone (I assume, or hope, private phone as they are supposed to have custom, secure phones for official business) got owned.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#152

Post by wizzwizz4 »

joelbluminator wrote: post #120
stevenjohns wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, sorry, you don’t get it to lump the Jewish people into this. It’s incredibly dishonest on your part to even go in that direction and you should feel embarrassment for trying to steer it towards that.

Steer what to where? Are you saying Israel's history and present are not connected to Jewish history and the 20th century atrocities? That's an extremely bizarre position to hold.

What isn't connected to Jewish history? Let's see… Christianity's out, as is everything influenced by that. Same with Islam. Considering conquerers, trade, settlement – even just the impact of the United States – that leaves… not very much.

The atrocities of WWII are more recent than the start of Jewish history, but it's called “World War II” for a reason. Think of the impact of the Geneva Conventions, for just one example.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#153

Post by DSingularity »

pasabagi wrote: post #68
stevenjohns wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's ridiculously short sighted and bordering on racist. Let's bomb all of Israel's infrastructure, arm various militias in the country and put economic sanctions on them for 20 years that limits the country to a grain-for-food programme and you'll quickly see Israel join in as a regional "basketcase."

I agree. I just think if I was working for the US state department, and I was sizing up various countries around the middle east to build a partnership with, I would choose Israel every time. The only country that comes close is Turkey, and they have coups every couple of decades. I think the reasons why the ME is so unstable are a bit complex, but it's also not really relevant. If you're interested in a stable regio…

The ME is unstable by design. Why dance around the subject? The US supports anti-democratic dictatorships in the countries it controls.

Guess what comes with unpopular regimes? Perpetual instability due to oppressed populations. In the countries that are not controlled the US supports any group willing to fight the government — sometimes with arms and other times with endless cash to fight the government within the framework of democracy. You think either of those actions support stability?

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#154

Post by skinkestek »

DSingularity wrote: post #76
classified wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Circular arguments are so convenient. And apparently "terrorists" and "criminals" (by whose definition?) have no rights whatsoever, so whatever you do to them cannot be wrong.

The problem is it kind of works. Israeli propagandists describe anyone who opposes Israeli war crimes or anyone that critiques their continued colonization of Palestinians as terrorist sympathizers. Guess what seemingly everyone in media/politics avoid?

> Guess what seemingly everyone in media/politics avoid?

We discussed the other day as well. We clearly live in different realities which might explain why we couldn't come to an agreement.

For the reference here is what my reality looks like:

Around here there are exactly two major outlets that I am aware of that is pro Israel: "MIFF - Med Israel For Fred" (With Israel For Peace) and the conservative newspaper document.no.

The rest of known media outlets are more or less deeply anti-Israeli:

Public broadcaster NRK is probably the biggest hatemongerer (publishing "funny" skits about "jewish swines", telling that Israeli soldiers "shoots at everything that moves", having a radio host saying on air (yes, on air) that he hope the vaccine doesn't work on them and they die from COVID etc.)

On the other side you have vg.no who will always end their pieces about Israelis bombing something with a sentence or two to balance it somewhat: "The Israeli attack happened after n hundred rockets had been fired over the border the last 24 hours."

The rest falls somewhere in the middle: not calling Israelis Jewish Swines like NRK but simultaneously only reporting whenever Israel strikes back, completely ignoring why.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#155

Post by wizzwizz4 »

raxxorrax wrote: post #124
dessant wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not familiar with the source, but can you give us a reason why one should be pro-Israel in this instance? I see nothing wrong with condemning the actions of the Israeli government, nor questioning why one of the prominent exports of the Israeli technology sector is surveillance. I keep being contacted several times a year by established Israeli companies to add spyware into my projects. A couple of weeks ago I wa…

As a EU citizen I don't criticise Israel for their weapon exports to much as that would be heavily hypocritical and it would also neglect the fact that EU officials actually want to implement said surveillance towards its citizens. That is not a fault of Israel, even if you want it to be.

Surely it is a fault of Israel – and also the EU? Just because our lot do it too, that doesn't stop it being a problem.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#156

Post by bzbarsky »

luffapi wrote: post #150
joelbluminator wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steer what to where? Are you saying Israel's history and present are not connected to Jewish history and the 20th century atrocities? That's an extremely bizarre position to hold.

The Balfour Declaration was well before WWII. Israel was always a colonization project.

Anti-semitism, including of the extremely violent variety, did not start with WWII. The Balfour Declaration was a response to Jews wanting to get the hell out of a Europe that hated them and liked to go kill them every so often.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#157

Post by skinkestek »

joelbluminator wrote: post #95
DSingularity wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is it kind of works. Israeli propagandists describe anyone who opposes Israeli war crimes or anyone that critiques their continued colonization of Palestinians as terrorist sympathizers. Guess what seemingly everyone in media/politics avoid?

> Guess what seemingly everyone in media/politics avoid? Who avoids it? Israel is written about, almost always negatively, on a daily basis on all major newspapers. Care to say which media outlet avoids "criticizing" Israel other than a few unimportant right wing outlets?

I have the same observations as you from Norway. From what I hear from those who have been here longer than me it has been like this since the 60ies or 70ies so it is not a new thing either.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#159

Post by wchar_t »

pulse7 wrote: post #116
jessaustin wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Terrorist sympathizer" is a milder slander than the one they really like to use for critics of Israel's actions, "antisemitic".

Aren't Arabs also "semitic people" [1]? (Since Ishmael and Abraham are also descendants of Shem...). In this case "antisemitic" would also mean "against Arabs"... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people

Yes, they are also a Semitic group, but "Anti-Semitic" has come to refer to hatred specifically against Israelis.

Maybe because that hatred is more widespread than hatred against all Semitic people...?

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#160

Post by DSingularity »

pasabagi wrote: post #123
stevenjohns wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that the only metric for supporting a Middle Eastern group is that they have to be pro-Israel, of course Israel becomes the natural choice. It’s not about stability considering that Israel is a constant powder keg. That in itself is just the catch-22 of US foreign policy in the Middle East. The right decision - if you had the best interests for the US and the region - is to completely withdraw. Any other…

The basic goal of US foreign policy has been to maintain a network of US allies and partners around the world, who can be relied upon to protect US strategic interests, like access through the strait of Hormuz. Nations like Qatar or SA are fine, but ultimately they are dictatorships that occasionally do stuff like chop up journalists, so you don't invest that much into them. The US had a very close strategic partners…

Wow! How do you lump in Qatar with Saudi Arabia? Please point us to one time where Qatar did something last heinous as Saudi thugs chopping up a Saudi journalist at the behest of the crown prince.
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