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Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

homelandsecuritynewswire.com

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Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#111

Post by croes »

bengalister wrote: post #61
southerntofu wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it's just PR bullshit like Amesys/Qosmos execs did 10 years ago pretending their surveillance software was only used to catch pedophiles and terrorists (despite human rights orgs being on their lists)... funny btw that 4 Amesys/Qosmos execs have just been indicted this month. However, as a french person i must agree Macron is a criminal and a terrorist. A criminal because he goes (as most presidents would) aga…

Wrong and exaggerated on so many levels. What you are saying is caricature of the left extremist way of thinking. No the yellow vest movement was nothing but peaceful, quite violent actually, throwing cobbles or molotov cocktails at police forces, using forklifts to force their way or destroy public properties, burning banks, setting cars on fire, etc. They were even allowed to demonstrate every week for at least 2 y…

Nice try linking the yellow vests to the capitol rioters.

I doubt the Capitol rioters ever had widespread support like the yellow vests had. In late November 2018, polls showed that the movement had widespread support in France ranging from 73 to 84 percent.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#112

Post by stevenjohns »

joelbluminator wrote: post #98
stevenjohns wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's ridiculously short sighted and bordering on racist. Let's bomb all of Israel's infrastructure, arm various militias in the country and put economic sanctions on them for 20 years that limits the country to a grain-for-food programme and you'll quickly see Israel join in as a regional "basketcase."

Oh yeah Israel's / Jewish people history was super pleasant, no we had a good time with the West for sure.

No, sorry, you don’t get it to lump the Jewish people into this. It’s incredibly dishonest on your part to even go in that direction and you should feel embarrassment for trying to steer it towards that.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#113

Post by croes »

poisonarena wrote: post #79
byteman wrote: post #75

Isn't it a bit weird that all of the criticism is pointed at the state in which a private company made this technology and none of the criticism is pointed at the actual states that bought and used it?

Not weird at all, given the recent uptick in anti-israel sentiments in the left, and uptick of antisemitism worldwide

I get it.

Calling out chinese, russian and north korean hacking = fighting cyber terrorism.

Calling out israeli hacking = antisemitism

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#114

Post by nindalf »

joelbluminator wrote: post #103
nindalf wrote: post #59

I’m not surprised that all statements from the Israeli government are filled with nothing. “We need to understand what happened” means “sorry not sorry”. This spyware is invaluable for the Israeli government because they have something that repressive Arab regimes want. These regimes can’t be bought with money, because some of them like Saudi Arabia and UAE have plenty of money. Israel needs friends and this is a gre…

Well from an Israeli point of view how is this wrong then? Maintaining a good relationship with Saudi Arabia is a game changer for Israel.

It isn’t wrong or undesirable from their point of view. That’s my point.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#115

Post by stevenjohns »

pasabagi wrote: post #68
stevenjohns wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's ridiculously short sighted and bordering on racist. Let's bomb all of Israel's infrastructure, arm various militias in the country and put economic sanctions on them for 20 years that limits the country to a grain-for-food programme and you'll quickly see Israel join in as a regional "basketcase."

I agree. I just think if I was working for the US state department, and I was sizing up various countries around the middle east to build a partnership with, I would choose Israel every time. The only country that comes close is Turkey, and they have coups every couple of decades. I think the reasons why the ME is so unstable are a bit complex, but it's also not really relevant. If you're interested in a stable regio…

Considering that the only metric for supporting a Middle Eastern group is that they have to be pro-Israel, of course Israel becomes the natural choice. It’s not about stability considering that Israel is a constant powder keg. That in itself is just the catch-22 of US foreign policy in the Middle East.

The right decision - if you had the best interests for the US and the region - is to completely withdraw. Any other decision leads to more conflict and hostile and opportunist groups (Iran, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Russia, et al) growing in influence with every passing moment.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#116

Post by pulse7 »

jessaustin wrote: post #87
DSingularity wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is it kind of works. Israeli propagandists describe anyone who opposes Israeli war crimes or anyone that critiques their continued colonization of Palestinians as terrorist sympathizers. Guess what seemingly everyone in media/politics avoid?

"Terrorist sympathizer" is a milder slander than the one they really like to use for critics of Israel's actions, "antisemitic".

Aren't Arabs also "semitic people" [1]? (Since Ishmael and Abraham are also descendants of Shem...). In this case "antisemitic" would also mean "against Arabs"...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#117

Post by raxxorrax »

nindalf wrote: post #59

I’m not surprised that all statements from the Israeli government are filled with nothing. “We need to understand what happened” means “sorry not sorry”. This spyware is invaluable for the Israeli government because they have something that repressive Arab regimes want. These regimes can’t be bought with money, because some of them like Saudi Arabia and UAE have plenty of money. Israel needs friends and this is a gre…

> Sure, some people might be annoyed they were spied on

I think it should be mentioned that other countries spy on citizens too. I fail to see what is the difference for Israel now. We have ample evidence from multiple whistleblowers that governments like to surveil their population.

Furthermore, Israel hasn't had the support it has today. Especially at the time multiple countries tried to attack it. At the time it basically got its weapons for defense on the black market. So scrutinizing questionable defense contracts is a weak accusation, especially since all other countries do sell weapons to regimes as well.

What you are really criticizing is the success. Making that clear might not really helpful, but is factual.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#118

Post by cutemonster »

Guthur wrote: post #93
saiya-jin wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't assess these things (or anything in real world) alone, but in context of what's going on in the whole world (and what isn't). After that, its on everybody how they view their personal freedom and themselves vs the averaged good of the whole nation/civilization.

Who gets to define the greater good? We had share morals at one time with religion but that's been tore down relentless so what are those shared ideals now. The fact of the matter is that eradication is impossible so what are we actually trying to achieve here. Reduce impact on health care? Maybe we should ban smoking and alcohol then or maybe MacDonalds, where is the line?

> Who gets to define the greater good?

One answer is the voters and the government they choose (if it's an okay functioning democracy)

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#119

Post by raxxorrax »

helge9210 wrote: post #90
byteman wrote: post #75

Isn't it a bit weird that all of the criticism is pointed at the state in which a private company made this technology and none of the criticism is pointed at the actual states that bought and used it?

Export of cyberweapon is regulated by the state.

As if Israel would be the only country selling weapons to the Saudis and they even have a tactical excuse aside from making money. It is not an excuse and they perhaps shouldn't, but it is the reality of weapon deals today.

Re: Israel tries to limit fallout from the Pegasus spyware scandal

#120

Post by joelbluminator »

stevenjohns wrote: post #112
joelbluminator wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yeah Israel's / Jewish people history was super pleasant, no we had a good time with the West for sure.

No, sorry, you don’t get it to lump the Jewish people into this. It’s incredibly dishonest on your part to even go in that direction and you should feel embarrassment for trying to steer it towards that.

Steer what to where? Are you saying Israel's history and present are not connected to Jewish history and the 20th century atrocities? That's an extremely bizarre position to hold.
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