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Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

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Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#191

Post by hn8788 »

deltasixeight wrote: post #19

Just to be fair and balanced I'm a hardcore linux user and gamer and I've tried gaming on linux and I've hit many issues. 365 games on steam and while some windows games work I've hit probably just about every possible issue you can hit with other games. Graphical artifacts, freezing, stuttering, and even full OS reboots. Sometimes I read this thread and scratch my head. I get enthusiasm for FOSS, but enthusiasm to t…

Yeah, people are definitely trying to oversell how well gaming works on Linux, especially now that the Steam Deck is coming out. I've had games rated Platinum and Gold on protondb be completely unplayable due to graphical issues, or fail to even launch. I've also run into Linux specific issues even for games that have native ports, for example, holding down a single key for a long time randomly causes the OS to stop sending signals for it until you release it and press again. It's gotten me killed quite a few times in fast paced shooters when holding down the movement key stops working.

Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#192

Post by gjsman-1000 »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #174
gear54rus wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So whats your solution? Let cheaters run around?

Anticheat without malware has been around for ages : simply don't trust the client. Even Minecraft servers manage it. Instead of playing a constant game of cat-and-mouse trying to prevent forbidden code from running when you can just plug in a USB rubber ducky , put the logic server-side. Ban problematic behaviour, as opposed to methods that might result in problematic behaviour. It takes some ingenuity, but what are…

As a Minecraft server operator, I can tell you there are plenty of client-side cheats that are hard to stop server-side. Also many players end up complaining about false positives typically caused by movement errors from internet lag on their end.

Also, all these anti-cheat methods are not supported by Mojang but are third-party plugins. Stock Minecraft Server hardly tries to prevent many of the hacks.

Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#193

Post by weare138 »

dtx1 wrote: post #187
weare138 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it sucks but ultimately it's the user's decision and Proton will allow the porting of other Windows apps. If you can use it to run a AAA game it could easily handle business apps. I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone say they'd switch to Linux but can't because it doesn't run [ insert some Windows app here ]. It's a net gain for Linux adoption.

This is sadly not true, since buisness apps use a much wider variety of windows APIs while games are mostly using a few (DirectX, OpenGL, Vulcan) APIs for most of what they do. You can see this with custom game launchers like League of Legends uses. The Game runs with basically native performance and without issues but the launcher is barely usable.

Plenty of key business apps use DirectX, OpenGL, Vulcan like CAD applications and games still use other Windows APIs. It's open-source, people can build off Proton to add the rest. These games for generally designed for Win10 now which support for is somewhat lacking in Wine. Concentrating on the latest version of Windows and APIs is a huge step in the right direction.

Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#194

Post by hn8788 »

weare138 wrote: post #181
deltasixeight wrote: post #19

Just to be fair and balanced I'm a hardcore linux user and gamer and I've tried gaming on linux and I've hit many issues. 365 games on steam and while some windows games work I've hit probably just about every possible issue you can hit with other games. Graphical artifacts, freezing, stuttering, and even full OS reboots. Sometimes I read this thread and scratch my head. I get enthusiasm for FOSS, but enthusiasm to t…

No one is claiming all Windows games work yet. Why would you assume they did? https://www.protondb.com

Because some people are claiming that they all work, and Valve is saying that they plan to have every game working with Proton by the time Steam Deck releases. I've lost count of the amount of times I've seen people point to the "15.5k games work" number on protondb since the Steam Deck was announced, even though "15.5k games work" only requires a single person to say a game worked for them, and less than half of games on the site are rated as platinum.

Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#195

Post by penagwin »

tl wrote: post #122
Zhyl wrote: post #74

A headline in Linux gaming circles that hasn't hit the wider circuit yet (probably because it hasn't actually been delivered yet) is that Valve are working with Battleye and EAC to get anti-cheat working on Proton for the release of the steam deck. If this happens it will be, without exaggeration, the greatest thing to ever happen to Linux gaming. I'm not expecting a massive increase overnight, but it should mean tha…

I'm a huge fan of the work Valve is doing, both in gaming hardware and Linux support, but I'm unconvinced helping game-oriented malware run on Linux is good period, let alone the "greatest thing to ever happen to Linux gaming".

As a person who both knows how easy cheats are to make, and what anticheat entails - There's no way I'd play without it.

In CSGO for example, many players _want_ a more invasive anticheat solution, and are literally asking or even paying for it through third parties like ESEA and Faceit.

Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#196

Post by asoneth »

tl wrote: post #144
colejohnson66 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative is requiring publishers to remove their DRM, and use Valve’s, and they (the publishers) most certainly would not do that. I’d bet that if Valve tried that, there’d be an antitrust lawsuit against them real quick. It sucks, but the alternative is getting the DRM to work on Linux, so that’s what they chose.

The arms race between game publishers and the small minority of gamers who actually cheat is harmful to everyone else. Stub the DRM APIs to usefully return nothing quickly rather than enabling voyeurs who think scanning and logging the contents of people's hard drives on their servers is acceptable.

> the small minority of gamers who actually cheat

The small minority of gamers who cheat impact the experience for a much larger number of customers who don't. So each cheater might cause dozens of lost subscriptions. (Contrast to software piracy, where each pirated copy only represents a probability between 0 and 1 of a lost sale.)

Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#197

Post by dtx1 »

weare138 wrote: post #193
dtx1 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is sadly not true, since buisness apps use a much wider variety of windows APIs while games are mostly using a few (DirectX, OpenGL, Vulcan) APIs for most of what they do. You can see this with custom game launchers like League of Legends uses. The Game runs with basically native performance and without issues but the launcher is barely usable.

Plenty of key business apps use DirectX, OpenGL, Vulcan like CAD applications and games still use other Windows APIs. It's open-source, people can build off Proton to add the rest. These games for generally designed for Win10 now which support for is somewhat lacking in Wine. Concentrating on the latest version of Windows and APIs is a huge step in the right direction.

Don't get me wrong, such applications obviously profit from better 3D support in Wine but Proton won't make an impact on how well microsoft office or adobe cc products run in general.

Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#198

Post by fooqux »

moultano wrote: post #180
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anticheat without malware has been around for ages : simply don't trust the client. Even Minecraft servers manage it. Instead of playing a constant game of cat-and-mouse trying to prevent forbidden code from running when you can just plug in a USB rubber ducky , put the logic server-side. Ban problematic behaviour, as opposed to methods that might result in problematic behaviour. It takes some ingenuity, but what are…

Aimbots need no trust from the server. As long as the client knows things the player doesn't, and there isn't a chain of custody from the physical mouse to the server, you can cheat.

Why would a client need to know of such things? If the player can't / shouldn't know of something, then the client shouldn't either.

There are some interesting repercussions of this train of thought though. Take an enemy hiding in brush in an FPS game. The player would have line of sight to their hiding spot, and current games (I think) just leave it to the player's eyeballs' ability to see them through the brush. That's kinda cool in that it raises the skill ceiling and it's obviously immersive.

However, there's a whole host of reasons it's bad. First, there's the aim bots and other cheating it allows for. Second, what if the player has bad eyesight? So there's an accessibility issue there. Third, you get people doing a... lighter form of cheating where they turn their graphics settings down to the lowest setting (sometimes even editing INI files to lower them down below what is possible via the GUI) that would lower foliage quality, making it easier to see the enemy. Probably some other things too.

There are perhaps many interesting ways to fix this. D&D has their own way with random chance, but I can see players of skill-based scoffing at this, and I don't blame them. But I feel the current approach is lazy game design, and perhaps something interesting could be thought up.

Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#199

Post by rbanffy »

trasz wrote: post #161
rbanffy wrote: post #115

Interestingly, Linux is the dominant gaming platform. It's just that it's called Android.

Android isn't Linux. Linux is just an implementation detail, which could be swapped for something else and the apps wouldn't notice.

This is and has always been kind of the point of Unix-like OSs. Blackberry had a workable Android 2 runtime on top of QNX.

You can (at least could) run a Debian on top of a FreeBSD kernel. I run a lot of Linux code on MacOS too.

Re: Steam survey shows Linux marketshare hitting 1.0%

#200

Post by Hello71 »

deltasixeight wrote: post #19

Just to be fair and balanced I'm a hardcore linux user and gamer and I've tried gaming on linux and I've hit many issues. 365 games on steam and while some windows games work I've hit probably just about every possible issue you can hit with other games. Graphical artifacts, freezing, stuttering, and even full OS reboots. Sometimes I read this thread and scratch my head. I get enthusiasm for FOSS, but enthusiasm to t…

> full OS reboots

while it's theoretically possible for this to be caused by software, it seems more likely considering the other issues you've listed that there are some hardware issues here. linux drivers exercise the hardware differently from windows, and usually more efficiently. if your hardware is weak (particularly PSU), it can fail during intense loads. see: people blaming prime95 for crashing their computer.

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