Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices • Hacker News Board

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#711

Post by AnimalMuppet » Fri, Jul 30, 2021, 10:11 PM UTC

ddvvff wrote: post #710

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the right not to get the shot. I control my own body. But there are others involved, not just me. In the same way, with abortion, there's another involved, the fetus. It's not part of the mother's body (it's genetically different). The "it's my body" argument breaks down in the same way for both issues. Unfortunately, both sides want to pick and choose when they apply which logic.

Is a fetus "someone" else or do we need more than 8 weeks to form a consciousness, how long is that period? I think there's debate to be had there. while in the vaccine situation we're talking about actual already born humans who are walking around the unvaccinated person every day and there's no debate there, the risk is real, and the other people can actually be verbally vocal about not wanting to be involved with…

Your first paragraph: Sure. There's debate to be had. My point is that the "it's my body" argument seems deliberately designed to hide the fact that the fetus isn't just a part of the woman's body. It's not like her tonsils or her appendix or her toenails. [Edit: That is, it's designed to hide the need for the debate.]

As to your second paragraph, it looks about even to me. If I walk around unvaccinated, I might infect someone. I might infect several people. Somewhere between zero and several people could die because of that. Whereas with abortion, the fetus is going to die with 100% probability.

But yes, people can be vocal about not wanting to be around unvaccinated people. The fetus? It never got a chance to voice an opinion.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#712

Post by robalicious » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 9:41 AM UTC

native_samples wrote: post #429

simondotau wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who also started reading the comments in this thread, I can wholeheartedly second this. Remember, nobody is going to change their mind on this issue because of a perfectly worded response in an internet discussion. If you want to change anyone's mind, focus on the people you can speak to in the real world—and have a conversation filled with love and respect. Fear of vaccination is a powerful meme which can…

No, really, better not. The people who are "captured" by this meme, as you rather condescendingly put it, generally don't trust the vaccine safety statistics, have many valid reasons not to do so, and are also well aware of the statistics around how dangerous COVID is or isn't for themselves. It would take great faith to believe that the institutions are providing reliable data right now in an atmosphere of mass hyst…

Remember, nobody is going to change their mind on this issue because of a perfectly worded response in an internet discussion. If you want to change anyone's mind, focus on the people you can speak to in the real world—and have a conversation filled with love and respect. Trust in vaccination is a powerful meme which cannot be countered by deriding the people who are sincerely captured by it. Instead, I suggest you walk them through the statistics and place them into human terms and human context. Show them how to calculate risk of death. Show them how to calculate risk of long term injury.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#713

Post by calsy » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 1:30 PM UTC

exo-pla-net wrote: post #555

calsy wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who nominated you smartest person in the room, yourself?

I'm still awaiting that nomination, and my cat isn't obliging, but I'm smart enough to smell that I touched a nerve. Are you vaccinated, calsy?

Random people on the net who like to pretend they are smarter than everyone are usually the opposite. You're not that person are you?

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#714

Post by ceejayoz » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 4:08 PM UTC

bananabiscuit wrote: post #558

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> more voluntarily reports of causing harm than any other vaccine in recent history, btw Given the amount of doses administered, we would expect this, right? Or are you making the claim that the proportions are higher?

According to https://www.hrsa.gov/sites/default/files/hrsa/vaccine-compen... from 2006-2019 alone, about 4 billion vaccines were administered in the US. Compared to something like 200 million COVID vaccinations so far. Yet, if you look at the VAERS data, 2021 had more all-cause deaths after vaccinations than the previous 20 years combined. Also had more miscarriages after vaccination than the previous 20 years combin…

"Run the queries and see for yourself"

Be sure to ignore the big disclaimer on that page, though, right?

> The number of reports alone cannot be interpreted or used to reach conclusions about the existence, severity, frequency, or rates of problems associated with vaccines.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#715

Post by bananabiscuit » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 4:17 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #714

bananabiscuit wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to https://www.hrsa.gov/sites/default/files/hrsa/vaccine-compen... from 2006-2019 alone, about 4 billion vaccines were administered in the US. Compared to something like 200 million COVID vaccinations so far. Yet, if you look at the VAERS data, 2021 had more all-cause deaths after vaccinations than the previous 20 years combined. Also had more miscarriages after vaccination than the previous 20 years combin…

"Run the queries and see for yourself" Be sure to ignore the big disclaimer on that page, though, right? > The number of reports alone cannot be interpreted or used to reach conclusions about the existence, severity, frequency, or rates of problems associated with vaccines.

My main paint, which I mention in many of my posts about this topic, but sometimes forget to include, is that there are peculiar signs in the data, and that these signs have to be acknowledged, followed up on and investigated, and some conclusions have to be drawn by people with the expertise to do so, and they have to be transparent about how those conclusions were drawn.

Instead everyone is sticking their head in the sand, except right wing pundits, who I think are all idiots and drawing their own incorrect conclusions because they aren’t experts.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#716

Post by exo-pla-net » Sat, Jul 31, 2021, 8:40 PM UTC

calsy wrote: post #713

exo-pla-net wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still awaiting that nomination, and my cat isn't obliging, but I'm smart enough to smell that I touched a nerve. Are you vaccinated, calsy?

Random people on the net who like to pretend they are smarter than everyone are usually the opposite. You're not that person are you?

You're scared of me, hiding your vaccination status. So I think I'm bigger in your mind than you're pretending.

But in case I'm mistaken, and you indeed look down on me, a question naturally arises: is bullying people you deem beneath you a lesson you want to impart to your daughters?

Do you want them to hide their opinions and not stand up for what they believe in, like you? Do you want your daughters to be weak like their father?

If you kill one of your daughters' relatives, owing to your extremist anti-vaccination stance, do you have a plan in place for how you'll explain it to them? The fact that their daddy has strong libertarian opinions that are worth more to him than the lives of grammy and grandpops?

Because that's what it boils down to. You're a disease vector who cares for nobody but himself and his reality-detached ideology. You're a delusional whackjob who believes himself smarter than epidemiologists and medical professionals, when in truth you're capable of little more than throwing together PhP scripts.

But what person am I? I'm the person that appears when you threaten the lives of another man's family with your decisions. We'll see how far your libertarian notions take you when push comes to shove.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#717

Post by ddvvff » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 10:59 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #711

ddvvff wrote: post #710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is a fetus "someone" else or do we need more than 8 weeks to form a consciousness, how long is that period? I think there's debate to be had there. while in the vaccine situation we're talking about actual already born humans who are walking around the unvaccinated person every day and there's no debate there, the risk is real, and the other people can actually be verbally vocal about not wanting to be involved with…

Your first paragraph: Sure. There's debate to be had. My point is that the "it's my body" argument seems deliberately designed to hide the fact that the fetus isn't just a part of the woman's body. It's not like her tonsils or her appendix or her toenails. [Edit: That is, it's designed to hide the need for the debate .] As to your second paragraph, it looks about even to me. If I walk around unvaccinated, I might inf…

I'd wager that "it's my body" argument does not try to hide that part of the debate, but instead declares a clear conviction that the fetus up to certain point is not a person, so it's a statement and it's picking a side in said debate, you can argue about that, in fact that's what most pro-life people do, it's even stated in the name _pro-life_ as in, for the life of the fetus, for that you have to conclude that the fetus is indeed a person.

What differentiates a embryo from a toumor? That it has another person's genetic code?

A mistakenly forgotten medical prop is not a part of anyone's body for example, wouldn't it be fucked up for someone not to be able to remove it from their body if the doctors left it inside just because it's not like their tonsils or her appendix? If there's something I don't want inside my body I should be able to decide, if your argument is that it is not "my body" because it is not explicitly "me" like my appendix, then many medical procedures would also be controversial

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#718

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Aug 02, 2021, 12:31 PM UTC

exo-pla-net wrote: post #716

calsy wrote: post #713

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Random people on the net who like to pretend they are smarter than everyone are usually the opposite. You're not that person are you?

You're scared of me, hiding your vaccination status. So I think I'm bigger in your mind than you're pretending. But in case I'm mistaken, and you indeed look down on me, a question naturally arises: is bullying people you deem beneath you a lesson you want to impart to your daughters? Do you want them to hide their opinions and not stand up for what they believe in, like you? Do you want your daughters to be weak lik…

[deleted]

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#719

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Aug 03, 2021, 12:27 AM UTC

exo-pla-net wrote: post #716

calsy wrote: post #713

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Random people on the net who like to pretend they are smarter than everyone are usually the opposite. You're not that person are you?

You're scared of me, hiding your vaccination status. So I think I'm bigger in your mind than you're pretending. But in case I'm mistaken, and you indeed look down on me, a question naturally arises: is bullying people you deem beneath you a lesson you want to impart to your daughters? Do you want them to hide their opinions and not stand up for what they believe in, like you? Do you want your daughters to be weak lik…

[deleted]

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#720

Post by fruityrudy » Fri, Aug 06, 2021, 7:37 PM UTC

cloverich wrote: post #614

Fine-Cut4983 wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are the type of person who will always do anything the authorities tell you to do. I suppose we are not likely to see eye to eye.

No the implication is a vaccine mandate in itself implies a calculated risk assessment that is sufficiently obvious it doesn’t make sense to use it as a basis for discussion.

Precisely.