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Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

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Re: Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

#71

Post by JonathonW »

StevePerkins wrote: post #50
userbinator wrote: post #47

i believe that before OSX, the OS itself had no terminal/shell/command prompt, and I suspect Macs were very rarely used for development back then; it was only with Unix-based OSX that it became hugely popular.

Who WAS Apple's customer base during the classic MacOS era? I remember Apple II's dominating when I was in school back in the 1980's. Then in the 1990's when I was in college, all I remember seeing anywhere were PC's. DOS and then Windows for the masses, and this new thing called Slackware Linux for many of us in the CS department. In the 2000's I started hearing about Macs, but only for creative domains like Photosh…

They were big in education-- student computers in elementary and middle school for me (basically, about 1992-2000) were basically 100% Macs. It wasn't until high school that Windows boxes started showing up in classrooms and computer labs.

They've also always had a decent base in the creative space-- Photoshop 1.0 being a Mac app had a big impact. Scully's mismanagement of the company meant a lot of people dumped the company in the mid-1990s, though; Jobs' return, the OSX transition, and the Intel switch were all necessary to bring the Mac division back up to where it is today.

Re: Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

#72

Post by classichasclass »

tikwidd wrote: post #30
_qbjt wrote: post #22

Oh wow, thank you for this. :) I was just restoring an iMac G3, the Flower Power edition, and ran into more trouble than I expected trying to transfer data via a USB flash drive. Filesystems that Mac OS 9 should support were either not mounting properly or causing errors during file transfer when formatted on a modern Apple or Linux system (exFAT was the only one I could get to work for some reason). I’ve been casual…

For classic macs with ethernet ports, the simplest method I have found is to host a basic FTP server on another computer (e.g. you can set one up easily enough on a Raspberry Pi) and use an Ftp client such as Fetch on the mac side. I use this method to get files to and from my LC III, which also functions as a bridge baby to the really old macs via the Appletalk serial port.

Or, if you want to do it in the other direction (sometimes this is more convenient), NCSA Telnet for the Mac has a built-in FTP server. I use this to upload files to the Power Mac 7300 directly from this Raptor Talos II.

Re: Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

#73

Post by classichasclass »

fzzzy wrote: post #66
tikwidd wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neat! I just have an LC III, SE and Powerbook 1400 running at the moment. Always wanted to find a NeXT... > Rather than run a bunch of Ethernet cables all over the place I put little Ethernet to Wifi bridge adapters on them. Works great. That's genius, thanks for the tip.

I had a next slab in the 00s but I had to get rid of it because of space. Recently, I had a Pentium 3 random machine and I finally managed to install OpenStep 4.2 on it. The trick is to find the absolute latest patch to have the VESA driver so you can have color. If you are curious about NeXT, I highly recommend finding a random intel pc from the 90s and installing the intel NeXTStep versions or OpenStep.

NeXTSTEP is also really great on PA-RISC, if you want an oddball combination.

Re: Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

#74

Post by cy384 »

Aloha wrote: post #62
cy384 wrote: post #49

oh hey everyone, author here, ssheven is still beta quality, so I wasn't really posting about it anywhere yet, but it's usable and has the core functionality working ok I plan to do a writeup about it, and the experience of developing for old macs, once I finish the 1.0 release edit: btw, this is my first project for the classic Mac OS, I hope to inspire others to also jump in, retro68 is a very usable toolchain (big…

Sorry for posting it before you were ready! I just thought it was really cool, and I thought getting you some more eyeshare might be useful in helping you find more folks wanting to work on it.

it's no problem, the killer feature (that it works at all, and can connect to modern servers with default configs) is solid, and more people using it will help flush out bugs

Re: Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

#75

Post by fzzzy »

tubularalloy wrote: post #36
blibble wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

even the crappiest laptop CPU can do 10000 x 4096-bit RSA signature verifications per second my 2014 laptop (on battery, no hardware acceleration): sign verify sign/s verify/s rsa 4096 bits 0.006200s 0.000096s 161.3 10468.9 (not to mention everyone's using ec these days, which is quite a bit faster)

It just occurred to me while reading this comment that people born after Intel CPUs mostly leveled out perfwise are probably peers now. That realization came hard, it came fast, and I wasn’t ready to live with that knowledge by a long shot. It was a long, long road to your 2014 laptop, friend. There was a time when division was a luxury, and desperate folk offered their firstborn for forbidden tricks to compute inver…

Cmon now, intel chips didn't level off till around 2010.

Re: Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

#76

Post by classichasclass »

StevePerkins wrote: post #50
userbinator wrote: post #47

i believe that before OSX, the OS itself had no terminal/shell/command prompt, and I suspect Macs were very rarely used for development back then; it was only with Unix-based OSX that it became hugely popular.

Who WAS Apple's customer base during the classic MacOS era? I remember Apple II's dominating when I was in school back in the 1980's. Then in the 1990's when I was in college, all I remember seeing anywhere were PC's. DOS and then Windows for the masses, and this new thing called Slackware Linux for many of us in the CS department. In the 2000's I started hearing about Macs, but only for creative domains like Photosh…

As one of those customers back then: lots of QuarkXPress and Photoshop. Upgrading from a 7100 to a Sawtooth G4 was a dream come true. It was still running 9.2 when I left that office.

Re: Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

#77

Post by fzzzy »

Lammy wrote: post #19
tambourine_man wrote: post #15

>input latency feels high because redrawing the screen is slow (along with all the encryption, which is also slow) Is modern encryption a challenge to those old machines? Is it because of specialized encryption hardware or sheer brute force? Or is it just this implementation that's slow? I used telnet back in the 68k days.

There was MacSSH, supporting SSH2 and up to MAC-SHA1/AES-256, but it required System 7.5 and 32MB rather than this project's System 7.1/2MB: https://web.archive.org/web/20071016100910/http://pros.orang...

Cool, thanks!

Re: Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

#78

Post by fzzzy »

userbinator wrote: post #47

i believe that before OSX, the OS itself had no terminal/shell/command prompt, and I suspect Macs were very rarely used for development back then; it was only with Unix-based OSX that it became hugely popular.

That's correct. There was A/UX which was a unix that ran the mac finder and MachTen which was a posix implementation for classic mac os you could launch like an app, but it wasn't until os x that it shipped with Terminal.app

Re: Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

#79

Post by classichasclass »

grishka wrote: post #10
tambourine_man wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here for this exact comment. The artwork is spot on. That, by itself alone, would have been amazing. I don't miss the lack of memory protection of classic Mac OS, but I do miss everything else.

Didn't last Mac OS 9 versions have memory protection? I mean there's a reason it's hard to run 9.2 on an emulator — it requires a working MMU.

This is an issue for SheepShaver (limited to 9.0.4 because 9.1 and up require the MMU as you say), but not QEMU, which emulates the MMU and thus runs 9.2 just fine.
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