Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9 • Hacker News Board

Re: Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

#41

Post by Lammy » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 1:05 AM UTC

im_down_w_otp wrote: post #34

Lammy wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> some sort of NAS solution that would be compatible with older versions of Mac OS http://netatalk.sourceforge.net/ :)

You have to run the 2.x series to interoperate with older "classic" Macs. Nearly everything these days packages the 3.x series and thus only works with more recent OS X clients.

That is true for AFP over AppleTalk, yes. Netatalk3 only supports AFP over TCP, but that's fine as far back as System 7 using AppleShare Workstation with MacTCP. System 7.6 and later can use AppleShare Client 3.8.8 with OpenTransport: https://web.archive.org/web/20110418060150/https://support.a...

Re: Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

#42

Post by King-Aaron » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 1:06 AM UTC

I still flick between After Dark (or at least, an After Dark clone) and the old windows 95 maze screensaver on my work machine. I get a lot of positive comments from people in the office that spot it and talk about how they miss those old screensavers.

Re: Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

#43

Post by blibble » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 1:07 AM UTC

_xy8h wrote: post #40

blibble wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your laptop from 2014 was already running at LEAST a 64bit CPU and likely has AES instructions as they were introduced in 2010 [3] I'm totally sure the RSA operations are using the AES instructions > Try using your old 2003-era system to generate keys again and tell us how fun it is. generating (fresh) rsa keys? you don't do that on connection to a SSH server as for what actually happens on connect, 2004 laptop: 33…

TLDR: You're not using era appropriate examples. I told you to get off my lawn.

I did exactly what you told me to

I suggest reading up on how the SSH protocol works

Re: Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

#44

Post by userbinator » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 1:08 AM UTC

Aeolun wrote: post #32

bibinou wrote: post #16

the machine it's probably tested on: http://www.cy384.com/projects/centris-650.html

Whenever I see these I’m baffed we could ever run a full GUI on these things, when the machines of today often have issues running one.

The faster the hardware gets, the more software becomes inefficient. Unfortunately, hardware hasn't become much faster outside of niche cases (massively parallel vector computations etc.) for the past decade or so.

Re: Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

#45

Post by im_down_w_otp » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 1:13 AM UTC

Lammy wrote: post #41

im_down_w_otp wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to run the 2.x series to interoperate with older "classic" Macs. Nearly everything these days packages the 3.x series and thus only works with more recent OS X clients.

That is true for AFP over AppleTalk, yes. Netatalk3 only supports AFP over TCP, but that's fine as far back as System 7 using AppleShare Workstation with MacTCP. System 7.6 and later can use AppleShare Client 3.8.8 with OpenTransport: https://web.archive.org/web/20110418060150/https://support.a...

It's not the protocols that are entirely the problem. It's the authentication mechanisms that also create limitations. I had zero luck getting my 6.0.8 thru 8.6 installs to connect to Netatalk hosts on either my FreeNAS box or my Ubuntu 20.10 workstation until I manually built and installed the old 2.x tree.

Re: Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

#46

Post by Lammy » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 1:17 AM UTC

im_down_w_otp wrote: post #45

Lammy wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is true for AFP over AppleTalk, yes. Netatalk3 only supports AFP over TCP, but that's fine as far back as System 7 using AppleShare Workstation with MacTCP. System 7.6 and later can use AppleShare Client 3.8.8 with OpenTransport: https://web.archive.org/web/20110418060150/https://support.a...

It's not the protocols that are entirely the problem. It's the authentication mechanisms that also create limitations. I had zero luck getting my 6.0.8 thru 8.6 installs to connect to Netatalk hosts on either my FreeNAS box or my Ubuntu 20.10 workstation until I manually built and installed the old 2.x tree.

It's been a few years so I don't remember if I ran into any difficulties or what options I may have changed from default, but I've definitely used it with my Quadra v(._. )v https://i.imgur.com/yjGGN9k.jpg

Re: Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

#47

Post by userbinator » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 1:18 AM UTC

i believe that before OSX, the OS itself had no terminal/shell/command prompt, and I suspect Macs were very rarely used for development back then; it was only with Unix-based OSX that it became hugely popular.

Re: Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

#48

Post by Lammy » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 1:25 AM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #47

i believe that before OSX, the OS itself had no terminal/shell/command prompt, and I suspect Macs were very rarely used for development back then; it was only with Unix-based OSX that it became hugely popular.

Apple's dev tools did come with one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_Programmer%27s_Works...

"The MPW Shell command language was based on the Unix csh language, but was extended to support the main features of the Macintosh GUI. It had simple commands to create menus, dialogs (prompts), and new shell windows. The cursor could be controlled, and MPW scripts or tools could easily be attached to a menu item. Command key shortcuts could be specified. Window size and location could be controlled. These features were popular in commercial production environments, where complicated build and packaging processes were all controlled by elaborate scripts."

Re: Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

#49

Post by cy384 » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 1:31 AM UTC

oh hey everyone, author here, ssheven is still beta quality, so I wasn't really posting about it anywhere yet, but it's usable and has the core functionality working ok

I plan to do a writeup about it, and the experience of developing for old macs, once I finish the 1.0 release

edit: btw, this is my first project for the classic Mac OS, I hope to inspire others to also jump in, retro68 is a very usable toolchain (big thanks to Wolfgang Thaller/autc04)

Re: Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

#50

Post by StevePerkins » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 1:36 AM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #47

i believe that before OSX, the OS itself had no terminal/shell/command prompt, and I suspect Macs were very rarely used for development back then; it was only with Unix-based OSX that it became hugely popular.

Who WAS Apple's customer base during the classic MacOS era?

I remember Apple II's dominating when I was in school back in the 1980's. Then in the 1990's when I was in college, all I remember seeing anywhere were PC's. DOS and then Windows for the masses, and this new thing called Slackware Linux for many of us in the CS department.

In the 2000's I started hearing about Macs, but only for creative domains like Photoshop or video editing. Then the Intel CPU switch happened, and today I'm on a MacBook just like pretty much every other programmer I know.

What was Apple's "niche", and who was their "base", back in the 1990's?