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Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

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Re: Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

#61

Post by cy384 »

Aeolun wrote: post #32
bibinou wrote: post #16

the machine it's probably tested on: http://www.cy384.com/projects/centris-650.html

Whenever I see these I’m baffed we could ever run a full GUI on these things, when the machines of today often have issues running one.

the GUI code for the earliest macs was absolutely a great feat of engineering

by getting my hands dirty with the system, I'm impressed by the way things were designed for the wimpiest processors (and also getting a lot of insight into the flaws of the OS that were exposed as machines became more powerful)

Re: Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

#62

Post by Aloha »

cy384 wrote: post #49

oh hey everyone, author here, ssheven is still beta quality, so I wasn't really posting about it anywhere yet, but it's usable and has the core functionality working ok I plan to do a writeup about it, and the experience of developing for old macs, once I finish the 1.0 release edit: btw, this is my first project for the classic Mac OS, I hope to inspire others to also jump in, retro68 is a very usable toolchain (big…

Sorry for posting it before you were ready! I just thought it was really cool, and I thought getting you some more eyeshare might be useful in helping you find more folks wanting to work on it.

Re: Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

#63

Post by im_down_w_otp »

Lammy wrote: post #46
im_down_w_otp wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the protocols that are entirely the problem. It's the authentication mechanisms that also create limitations. I had zero luck getting my 6.0.8 thru 8.6 installs to connect to Netatalk hosts on either my FreeNAS box or my Ubuntu 20.10 workstation until I manually built and installed the old 2.x tree.

It's been a few years so I don't remember if I ran into any difficulties or what options I may have changed from default, but I've definitely used it with my Quadra v(._. )v https://i.imgur.com/yjGGN9k.jpg

It's entirely possible I just couldn't get the right mix and config together with 3.x

It just went from fiddly and non-working to braindead easy once I downgraded to 2.x

:shrug:

Re: Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

#64

Post by fzzzy »

im_down_w_otp wrote: post #38
tikwidd wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For classic macs with ethernet ports, the simplest method I have found is to host a basic FTP server on another computer (e.g. you can set one up easily enough on a Raspberry Pi) and use an Ftp client such as Fetch on the mac side. I use this method to get files to and from my LC III, which also functions as a bridge baby to the really old macs via the Appletalk serial port.

This is what I do, and it works pretty well if a little cumbersome at times. I have a little museum I've built in my office during the pandemic that consists of: - SE/30 - Docked Duo 280c - 7100/80 - PowerComputing PT Pro 250 - NeXT TurboStation My primary Linux workstation is where I browse for old software and download it, then I get at stuff from the vintage Macs via FTP using either Interarchy or Fetch. Rather th…

Where'd you get the PowerComputing? Clones like that are going to be the most rare.

Re: Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

#65

Post by cy384 »

callinyouin wrote: post #57
cy384 wrote: post #49

oh hey everyone, author here, ssheven is still beta quality, so I wasn't really posting about it anywhere yet, but it's usable and has the core functionality working ok I plan to do a writeup about it, and the experience of developing for old macs, once I finish the 1.0 release edit: btw, this is my first project for the classic Mac OS, I hope to inspire others to also jump in, retro68 is a very usable toolchain (big…

This is so cool. I've been wanting to pick up an older mac for the sole purpose of doing some programming on classic MacOS myself. I actually have a Macintosh SE, but it's a bit too underpowered for my tastes. Anyway, I was hoping you might be willing to share what your development environment looks like. Language, editor, etc. Thanks! Edit: I think I started to reply before your edit. Retro68 sounds amazing!

if you want to go period-appropriate, you can run Macintosh Programmer's Workshop or CodeWarrior natively

I use retro68 on linux, which is a modern GCC toolchain, so it's just like developing any other C/C++ (well, without some nice debugging tools, and with the added complexity of the mac OS resource stuff)

https://github.com/autc04/Retro68/

Re: Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

#66

Post by fzzzy »

tikwidd wrote: post #56
im_down_w_otp wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I do, and it works pretty well if a little cumbersome at times. I have a little museum I've built in my office during the pandemic that consists of: - SE/30 - Docked Duo 280c - 7100/80 - PowerComputing PT Pro 250 - NeXT TurboStation My primary Linux workstation is where I browse for old software and download it, then I get at stuff from the vintage Macs via FTP using either Interarchy or Fetch. Rather th…

Neat! I just have an LC III, SE and Powerbook 1400 running at the moment. Always wanted to find a NeXT... > Rather than run a bunch of Ethernet cables all over the place I put little Ethernet to Wifi bridge adapters on them. Works great. That's genius, thanks for the tip.

I had a next slab in the 00s but I had to get rid of it because of space. Recently, I had a Pentium 3 random machine and I finally managed to install OpenStep 4.2 on it. The trick is to find the absolute latest patch to have the VESA driver so you can have color.

If you are curious about NeXT, I highly recommend finding a random intel pc from the 90s and installing the intel NeXTStep versions or OpenStep.

Re: Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

#67

Post by blibble »

retrac wrote: post #60
blibble wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

even the crappiest laptop CPU can do 10000 x 4096-bit RSA signature verifications per second my 2014 laptop (on battery, no hardware acceleration): sign verify sign/s verify/s rsa 4096 bits 0.006200s 0.000096s 161.3 10468.9 (not to mention everyone's using ec these days, which is quite a bit faster)

Since you mention EC, it uses floating point. Good ol' FLOPS is not a wholly useless metric there. The first commercial processor sold with a floating point unit integrated was the 486 in 1989. Some rough, unsourced numbers: 1984 - Cray X-MP (expensive!) 800 MFLOPS 1989 - Intel 486 @ 33 MHz 3 1993 - Pentium @ 60 MHz 10 1997 - Pentium II @ 233 MHz 200 2000 - Pentium III @ 1000 MHz 2000 2004 - Pentium 4 @ 2800 MHz 5650…

even if it's 15000 times slower than my 2014 laptop (which it isn't): the ECDH operation still takes under a second

and that's the expensive operation (done once per connection)

Re: Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

#68

Post by brandmeyer »

tambourine_man wrote: post #15

>input latency feels high because redrawing the screen is slow (along with all the encryption, which is also slow) Is modern encryption a challenge to those old machines? Is it because of specialized encryption hardware or sheer brute force? Or is it just this implementation that's slow? I used telnet back in the 68k days.

Depends in part on the cipher suite. For software implementations, the current generation of chacha20-poly1305 and ed25519 are tolerable. But earlier generation ciphers were designed with hardware acceleration in mind.

This tool is relying on libssh2 for its SSH implementation core. chacha20-poly1305 and ed25519 are both extensions and are not included.

Re: Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

#69

Post by fzzzy »

Lammy wrote: post #6
azalemeth wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I genuinely think it fits right in. Apple always had a good aesthetic, even when everything was beige and rectangular. I did a giant chunk of my school work on Claris Works, before I discovered latex. Happy memories.

If only I could still get laptops with the keys printed in Univers 57 Condensed Oblique :) https://catalog.monotype.com/font/linotype/univers/57-conden...

well you can on ebay ;)

Re: Ssheven: A modern SSH client for Mac OS 7-9

#70

Post by fzzzy »

cy384 wrote: post #61
Aeolun wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever I see these I’m baffed we could ever run a full GUI on these things, when the machines of today often have issues running one.

the GUI code for the earliest macs was absolutely a great feat of engineering by getting my hands dirty with the system, I'm impressed by the way things were designed for the wimpiest processors (and also getting a lot of insight into the flaws of the OS that were exposed as machines became more powerful)

They really managed to find ways to make it work despite the hardware of the day. There was a lot of hand coded assembly until the mid 90s.
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