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London’s Crossrail Is a $21B Test of Virtual Modeling (2016)

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Re: London’s Crossrail Is a $21B Test of Virtual Modeling (2016)

#51

Post by tialaramex »

londons_explore wrote: post #34
tialaramex wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Class 345s were all manufactured and are already in service today. Is their performance in fact "poorer than initially specified" ?

I guess you'll see next year when the timetable is released

The trains exist now, either they do, or they do not, perform as intended.

Trial running is at 12tph now, so that's the same as the initial passenger service. If they can't hit the travel time numbers they already know that today. Trial operations will also give real (volunteer) passengers an impression of whether the service can deliver those times since they'll be undertaking test journeys late in 2021.

Re: London’s Crossrail Is a $21B Test of Virtual Modeling (2016)

#52

Post by FridayoLeary »

tsywke44 wrote: post #14
Reason077 wrote: post #13

> "The first Crossrail trains will start running in 2017, and when the network is fully open in 2019, it will shuttle an estimated 200 million passengers every year." We're half way through 2021 and still waiting! According to the latest project update, "Crossrail Ltd plans to bring the Elizabeth line into passenger service as soon as practically possible in the first half of 2022."

Who cares? These are rail lines which will be used for centuries. Trust me, nobody will even remember a few years of delays.

I'm inclined to agree. Every time i use the tube, i'm reminded that the Victorians were more ambitious in their infrastructure projects then us. But still, i haven't heard anyone having a nice word to say about HS2, i wonder if anyone here could explain the pros of it.

Re: London’s Crossrail Is a $21B Test of Virtual Modeling (2016)

#53

Post by toomuchtodo »

Swenrekcah wrote: post #50
toomuchtodo wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was more directed at COVID pushing remote work, negating the need to shuffle bodies around via public transit to do knowledge work. I agree Brexit has been an expensive, unnecessary shit show.

Ah, makes sense. My bad. Although I do believe there is a great future for public transit in coordination with lighter ‘last mile’ solutions simply because cars are way too bulky for cities.

No worries at all. I agree that in most of Europe, cars are to be avoided considering density and robust existing connectivity. With that said, it makes sense to consider the New Future when making capex plans.

Re: London’s Crossrail Is a $21B Test of Virtual Modeling (2016)

#54

Post by neRok »

7952 wrote: post #43
neRok wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> consider whether the reliance on comprehensive digital modelling might be in any way to blame for the delays? Maybe. 3D models have been used to design and plan projects for over 20 years now (I've been in the industry in Aus for >15 years), and so the bulk of the models are not at fault here (because if these design models were the delay, the construction would also be delayed, but the article suggests it wasn't).…

I have worked on major construction projects and a complicating factor is the sheer number of different disciplines involved. Teams work with their own systems and maintain their own state and then inexorably get out of sync. In computing this kind of thing is understood at a more fundamental level. You have locks, transactions, branches, merges, continuous integration etc. These same problems exist when designing a…

> But the engineers don't have expertise in data

The story might be different elsewhere, but here it is draftsman that make the 3d models and all the associated data, and to do get a job in the industry only requires 1 year of vocational education. To put it bluntly, these aren't the smartest people.

Re: London’s Crossrail Is a $21B Test of Virtual Modeling (2016)

#55

Post by Animats »

user5994461 wrote: post #27
throw0101a wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trust me, nobody will even remember a few years of delays. I remember someone commenting that given the choice, it's better to delay shipping video games if you need to fix things. This is because not long after release no one will remember it being late, but everyone will remember (hearing that) it being a pile of garbage. Reputations are often very hard to shake.

That's not true anymore with online updates and early access on steam. You can ship a game with lots of bugs and missing content, as long as the price is set in consequence.

Doesn't this subthread belong to the Blizzard Entertainment topic, not the Crossrail topic?

Re: London’s Crossrail Is a $21B Test of Virtual Modeling (2016)

#56

Post by 7952 »

neRok wrote: post #54
7952 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have worked on major construction projects and a complicating factor is the sheer number of different disciplines involved. Teams work with their own systems and maintain their own state and then inexorably get out of sync. In computing this kind of thing is understood at a more fundamental level. You have locks, transactions, branches, merges, continuous integration etc. These same problems exist when designing a…

> But the engineers don't have expertise in data The story might be different elsewhere, but here it is draftsman that make the 3d models and all the associated data, and to do get a job in the industry only requires 1 year of vocational education. To put it bluntly, these aren't the smartest people.

And you get one more place for people to get out of sync. One more excuse for why engineers don't need to understand their own fundamental tools.

Re: London’s Crossrail Is a $21B Test of Virtual Modeling (2016)

#57

Post by [deleted] »

Animats wrote: post #55
user5994461 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true anymore with online updates and early access on steam. You can ship a game with lots of bugs and missing content, as long as the price is set in consequence.

Doesn't this subthread belong to the Blizzard Entertainment topic, not the Crossrail topic?

[deleted]

Re: London’s Crossrail Is a $21B Test of Virtual Modeling (2016)

#58

Post by QasimK »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #49
QasimK wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

COVID has not been cheap either - it has cost hundreds of billions [0]. You could fund twenty crossrails for this amount of money. [0]: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/22/a-year-of-c...

Brexit was a choice, while the fiscal, monetary, and societal response to COVID was necessary and unavoidable.

I disagree that it was unavoidable. I said to my family in February that the UK should stop all - absolutely all - flights into the country. The cost of this would have been miniscule compared to what ended up happening.

(Not just flights - everything except essential goods including via trains, ships and lorries. Certainly all people should have been disallowed entry.)

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