Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices • Hacker News Board

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#661

Post by A_non_e-moose » Fri, Jul 30, 2021, 7:30 AM UTC

himinlomax wrote: post #599

mwint wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being personally educated on the risks to to people in my demographic, I would gladly sign an ironclad “I won’t sue the company if I get covid” contract to work in an office. If that’s the company’s concern, I suspect most people who hasn’t received a vaccine would sign such a contract.

Will you compensate financially the co-workers you happen to infect and who are vaccinated but for whom the vaccine didn't work (10% or so risk)? It's not about you, nobody's stopping you from playing Russian roulette with your own skull. I personally do not want to be around unvaccinated people any more than I want to be on the same road as a drunk or street racer.

I would agree to that, provided there is evidence to prove that the other person was infected from me and not anyone else and that this specific infection caused them harm.

Restitution on dubious causes is not something that would hold in a court, I think.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#662

Post by forcry » Fri, Jul 30, 2021, 7:33 AM UTC

dbt00 wrote: post #141

throwawayboise wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we were told to get vaccinated to protect others. Get vaccinated so you can visit your grandparents. Now we are getting a different message. This is why people develop doubts that the authorities have any real idea what they are talking about.

"Being vaccinated isn't a perfect defense, but it reduces the risk to you of getting the disease, it drastically reduces the risk to you of dying from the disease or suffering long term life altering consequences from it, and it lowers the risk of you spreading it to others." The general guidance hasn't changed. The risk to each other has gone up as Delta spreads, because it's more dangerous. There will probably be o…

>And it's incredibly harmless

Not really https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mxqC9SiRh8

Ofcourse these may be a small number of cases. But you can't see these people, and say that the vaccine is "incredibly harmless"...

How these people are being neglected is absolutely disgusting. I have submitted this link here and it was promptly flagged, where have written why I think that these people deserve to be thanked

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27941820

https://www.c19vaxreactions.com/uploads/1/3/7/7/137732232/le...

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#663

Post by A_non_e-moose » Fri, Jul 30, 2021, 7:34 AM UTC

himinlomax wrote: post #602

penultimatebro wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you’ll be opting to stay home? If everyone in the office is vaccinated you’ll be around only potentially infectious people. >Unvaccinated people have made a choice to risk their lives, they don’t get the choice to risk mine. Doesn’t the vaccine cover for this? You get the vaccine and it reduces your symptoms, making you less likely to end up hospitalized or die. Even vaccinated you can still get infected, get si…

I said *avoidable* risk. Avoidable is the key. Driving a car has risks, that doesn't excuse idiots driving drunk or racing into my vehicle. Unvaccinated people are literally like drunks. They can be drunk at home, they don't get to be drunk while on the road, and I shouldn't have to stay home so that they can drive dangerously. > Doesn’t the vaccine cover for this? You get the vaccine and it reduces your symptom I do…

> Unvaccinated people are literally like drunks.

I was not aware motor and speech discoordination were symptoms of covid.

Perhaps we as a society should find a new word that means what literally used to mean a few years ago.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#664

Post by himinlomax » Fri, Jul 30, 2021, 7:34 AM UTC

A_non_e-moose wrote: post #661

himinlomax wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will you compensate financially the co-workers you happen to infect and who are vaccinated but for whom the vaccine didn't work (10% or so risk)? It's not about you, nobody's stopping you from playing Russian roulette with your own skull. I personally do not want to be around unvaccinated people any more than I want to be on the same road as a drunk or street racer.

I would agree to that, provided there is evidence to prove that the other person was infected from me and not anyone else and that this specific infection caused them harm. Restitution on dubious causes is not something that would hold in a court, I think.

That's not the point.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#665

Post by Broken_Hippo » Fri, Jul 30, 2021, 7:36 AM UTC

makomk wrote: post #236

deanc wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a counter point to yours, just as valid, where folks don’t want to be around unvaccinated folks. Maybe they have an immunocompromised relative or child at home. Maybe they don’t feel safe with unvaccinated folks around. This is a game of odds. People keep acting like this is binary. You’re statistically more likely to have and spread covid without the vaccine. I would be delighted if my employer enforced thi…

Honestly, anyone who's genuinely at risk enough that they can't risk being exposed despite being vaccinated - as opposed to the people who were convinced they are because of stupid media culture war bullshit - probably shouldn't be working in an office, because at that point they're going to be at reasonably comparable risk from the common cold. Seriously. The other four endemic human coronaviruses, for example, are…

So... someone with a autoimmune disorder who is on a drug that suppresses their immune system shouldn't be in the office - even if they feel decent daily and definitely wouldn't qualify for disability? (These sorts of medicines keep folks as healthy and mobile as possible, which is why diseases like MS aren't the sentence they used to be, even if they are still serious).

Diabetes can make you much more likely to have issues with infection too. Should it cause you to stay home? How are you going to eat and pay utilities?

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#666

Post by Broken_Hippo » Fri, Jul 30, 2021, 7:41 AM UTC

A_non_e-moose wrote: post #661

himinlomax wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will you compensate financially the co-workers you happen to infect and who are vaccinated but for whom the vaccine didn't work (10% or so risk)? It's not about you, nobody's stopping you from playing Russian roulette with your own skull. I personally do not want to be around unvaccinated people any more than I want to be on the same road as a drunk or street racer.

I would agree to that, provided there is evidence to prove that the other person was infected from me and not anyone else and that this specific infection caused them harm. Restitution on dubious causes is not something that would hold in a court, I think.

I don't think you'd need anything other than pointing out that the person refused to take minimal precautions, even though it was available to them. I'm pretty sure employers have been sued for this one - not doing the basic minimum to keep others safe.

Civil courts, at least in the US, don't need proof beyond a reasonable doubt, after all - which is why you can get found not guilty for felony charges but still have to pay a wrongful death settlement for the same incident.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#667

Post by Broken_Hippo » Fri, Jul 30, 2021, 7:48 AM UTC

version_five wrote: post #97

paxys wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this really pushing the envelope though? Routine drug testing by employers, for example, has been considered totally acceptable by society for decades now. I'd consider a one-time proof of vaccination against a deadly pandemic to be far less intrusive than that.

Is routine drug testing universally considered acceptable? If I'm going to be a pilot, maybe. For a developer job, I would never consider one that asked for a drug test (I don't use drugs just to be clear, my objection is to a company having any say in what people do on their own time). People complain about having to do a coding test during the interview process, but somehow it's ok to verify that you don't smoke po…

"Is routine drug testing universally considered acceptable?"

In the US, yes. There is a very, very, very good chance that your cashiers, call center workers, and a slew of other low-level (and store management) positions have had to take a pre-employment drug test. A lot of government jobs require it as well (IIRC, the government has some issues getting tech folks because of drug test requirements): Some have to take random drug tests during their employment.

It doesn't matter if it will affect your job at all. In some states, they can reject or fire you for nicotine.

I don't think this is as acceptable outside of the US: I'm in Norway now, and it would probably be illegal without reason (pilots, for example... perhaps). And a real reason, not just wanting sober employees or to sort potential employees.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#668

Post by Broken_Hippo » Fri, Jul 30, 2021, 7:48 AM UTC

briefcomment wrote: post #91

paxys wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this really pushing the envelope though? Routine drug testing by employers, for example, has been considered totally acceptable by society for decades now. I'd consider a one-time proof of vaccination against a deadly pandemic to be far less intrusive than that.

Having to put something in your body is different than most requirements. Only thing that's close is childhood vaccination I guess.

They can drug test you. Isn't that just controlling what you are allowed to put in your body?

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#669

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 30, 2021, 7:49 AM UTC

tremon wrote: post #416

paxys wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this really pushing the envelope though? Routine drug testing by employers, for example, has been considered totally acceptable by society for decades now. I'd consider a one-time proof of vaccination against a deadly pandemic to be far less intrusive than that.

But what makes you think the vaccination will be one-time? There's plenty of indicators the Covid-19 vaccine is only effective for a limited number of months, so -if it turns out to be more like a flu vaccine than a measles vaccine- should we then continuously be able to prove that we got a booster shot in the last 6 months?

[deleted]

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#670

Post by A_non_e-moose » Fri, Jul 30, 2021, 8:02 AM UTC

VBprogrammer wrote: post #338

colechristensen wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One has to believe at some point that liberty is worth a certain amount of risk. >Do you believe that someone's refusal to comply with basic sanitary precautions should take precedence over my and my family and loved one's desire to not die of a preventable disease? Did you and your family get vaccinated? What unvaccinated people do does not affect your risk profile in any meaningful way. Are your kids too young to g…

> If you're vaccinated or too young to be vaccinated, COVID-19 is over for you. The risk went from 1 in 1000 people dying to no worse than the risk in any flu season, unless that very mild risk makes you think that we should reinvent what personal freedoms in society means, stop turning and ending pandemic into a catastrophe. I'm not sure this is settled fact at the moment. There are known variants which have shown t…

> Strong arming people into being vaccinated is the stick with which to try to limit these reservoirs.

I suppose then that after every single person in more developed countries is vaccinated, we should start readying the troops for invasion into the less developed countries that, inevitably, will not be fully vaccinated? Otherwise, pockets > variants > travel > reinfection.

Or is too inhumane to invade a country to force them to vaccinate fully? Maybe we should just isolate them economically and close borders with them until they do it themselves.

How far should we go?

I understood your personal thresholds, and thank you for sharing. For me only the government should make and enforce a decision on public health at scale, not any employer, that's my threshold.

I have seen other thresholds being crossed in the last 2 years, but now mine has been crossed, and I don't see this slowing down. What's the next threshold to be crossed?