581–590 of 722 posts
vaccines / covid are the new politics/religion from speaking from identity[0]? [0] http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html
I can absolutely feel a kind of religious zeal and moral superiority from the pro-vax side. It will be hilariously stupid if long-term side effects turn out to be real.
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I set myself a smart goal. 2024. clinical trials for all will be finished by the end of 2023 at the latest and then, give it a couple months to wrap up and draft or bury and reports. that is my basis. it's Smart.
I think waiting for long-term effects to be clear is a defensible position. What I don’t follow is that, AFAICT, full authorization is likely ~6 months from the date of filing (so November to January depending on manufacturer). So we won’t have long-term data. Is full FDA approval meaningful to you? If so, how?
Unless you get infected, in which case you made a pretty big mistake.
So then your basically saying you don't want to get vaccinated or get covid. I'm guessing you probably also want to stop social distancing. in which case you would eventually certainly get covid if it weren't for the existence of the vaccines.
So the choices are: - Don't get vaccinated and everyone continues social distancing for several years, or until you get Covid. - Don't get vaccinated and stop social distancing once everyone else gets the vaccine - Get vaccinated
Only the third option is remotely defensible. The second option is borderline sociopathic and there are enough people taking it that it is far more dangerous than option 3.
HIV kills one million per year, I wonder if they will also mandate pREP to reduce risk.
HIV kills one million per year, I wonder if they will also mandate pREP to reduce risk.
Well in some places like California, and now Illinois, they are advocating in legislation to decriminalize a person who knowingly transmits HIV to a partner. It’s possible we could see a criminalization of someone who knowingly transmit Covid to someone else.
I’ve typed out 3 comments to 3 separate people before deleting them. I didn’t see the point. Folks, it’s a good idea to heed dang’s warning at the top of the thread. I’ve read all the comments and can confidently say there’s nothing worth reading here. Just people absolutely convinced of their ideas and principles, shouting past each other. Nothing we haven’t seen on this topic 50 times before. You’re better off goin…
What should not happen - what cannot happen - is the government or private entities forcing you to be vaccinated, or you lose your means of supporting yourself. It's as un-American as it gets.
Part of being a free society - a truly free society - is that people must be free to make their own choices, even if they're poor choices.
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> I’ve read all the comments and can confidently say there’s nothing worth reading here I particularly dislike this type of comments, which tell people what to feel and think about a thread, however well meaning it might be. You're in a performative contradiction when you shallowly dismiss the entire thread with an overgeneralization and with that make it definitely less useful. Yes, this thread is more divided than…
The interesting discussions are not one-dimensional back-and-forth such as this one. It is when participants weigh multiple arguments against eachother and try to reach new insights. Discussion of value-systems are just hopeless, as there's no common ground.
It boils down to freedom vs. safety, period. It's just that simple.
In a free society, you have to sacrifice safety. The safety people are fine to feel they way they want to feel, but they need to understand that argument is antithetical to American values. America is founded on the ideals of freedom; it was not founded on the ideals of safety.
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The interesting discussions are not one-dimensional back-and-forth such as this one. It is when participants weigh multiple arguments against eachother and try to reach new insights. Discussion of value-systems are just hopeless, as there's no common ground.
That’s a really solid rule for productive discussions. The great difficulty would lie in actually enforcing it on HN. Maybe some sort of cool-down timer for posters, who are otherwise polite, getting too agitated? Some kind of rate limiting for new comments on a controversial submission?
One person's "asshole" is another person's "passionate".
I work at google and am vaxxed but this pisses me off. I decided that the vaccine was worth the risk and for the best overall but if someone makes a different calculus I can understand and respect that. IMHO they gone way outside the reasonable scope of an employer - this is a cultural decision at the society level - why the fuck does my employer give a shit about this. Unless the employees are only commuting back an…
what i think people forget is that this isn't (IMO) about what the company wants or whatever, it's about the fact that offices are a nasty space where everybody breathes everybody's air - and diseases simply don't give a crap about where that happens. I'm pretty sure if google were an outdoor office complex where everybody sat 10 meters apart from each other they wouldn't give a crap about your vaccination status. If…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The interesting discussions are not one-dimensional back-and-forth such as this one. It is when participants weigh multiple arguments against eachother and try to reach new insights. Discussion of value-systems are just hopeless, as there's no common ground.
> Discussion of value-systems are just hopeless, as there's no common ground. It boils down to freedom vs. safety, period. It's just that simple. In a free society, you have to sacrifice safety. The safety people are fine to feel they way they want to feel, but they need to understand that argument is antithetical to American values. America is founded on the ideals of freedom; it was not founded on the ideals of saf…
We have structures to keep you safe from murder, or from breathing cigarette smoke in your workplace. Where your freedom can hurt others, we value finding a middle ground. That's not new.
Vaccines are already mandated in some situations and we don't fight about it. This topic is only controversial because some have found they can profit by turning it into a culture war.
But we're talking about nudging the freedom/safety line a slight bit one way or the other. It's already in the middle. Losing one right doesn't mean that we're not qualitatively as free as we were yesterday.