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Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

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Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#591

Post by SnowProblem »

alex504 wrote: post #582
boulos wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think waiting for long-term effects to be clear is a defensible position. What I don’t follow is that, AFAICT, full authorization is likely ~6 months from the date of filing (so November to January depending on manufacturer). So we won’t have long-term data. Is full FDA approval meaningful to you? If so, how?

> I think waiting for long-term effects to be clear is a defensible position. Unless you get infected, in which case you made a pretty big mistake. So then your basically saying you don't want to get vaccinated or get covid. I'm guessing you probably also want to stop social distancing. in which case you would eventually certainly get covid if it weren't for the existence of the vaccines. So the choices are: - Don't…

Curious, how does Ivermectin fit into your worldview?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/fda-ivermectin-covid-19-coronav...

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#592

Post by vinay427 »

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #474

This is extremely shady. I'm in complete favour of vaccination, but I'm amazed that it's even legal for an employer in the US to ask such specific details about one's medical history. My employer doesn't need to know what vaccines I've taken, or anything else from my medical record, unless I decide to share it. Mind you, I'll still tell my team "I'll be about this morning for vaccination". But there's a difference be…

> it's even legal for an employer in the US to ask such specific details about one's medical history.

I would presume it's legal in many European countries as well, and I would expect some would go even farther. Note that they're requiring vaccinations for returning to offices that the company manages, not asking arbitrary questions about medical histories. It certainly would be legal in the country where I live, from everything I've read. Just as private businesses are free to require a vaccination certificate for entry to an establishment (e.g. clubs, or in certain European countries more essential services as well), employers are free to terminate an employee if their presence in the workplace poses an excessive risk.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#593

Post by AnimalMuppet »

ddvvff wrote: post #259
d4mi3n wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m all for getting everyone vaccinated as well, but I’d be really concerned about the precedent this sets. The reasons governments are reluctant to do this is they it sets a precedent for them to dictate what a person can do with their bodies. Saying someone must have an injection, regardless of how well intentioned it is, requires you to be able to dictate what goes into their body. Pretty much the same set of powe…

What do you think of abortion? I agree about body autonomy but it frustrates me to no end to see woman asking for this basic right, even when their lives depend on it and it being denied, sterilization is also not easy to obtain for a woman. But then comes someone who is scared about potential side effects to a vaccine in the middle of a pandemic crisis, so much so that they're willing to risk their peers and they co…

I have the right not to get the shot. I control my own body. But there are others involved, not just me.

In the same way, with abortion, there's another involved, the fetus. It's not part of the mother's body (it's genetically different).

The "it's my body" argument breaks down in the same way for both issues. Unfortunately, both sides want to pick and choose when they apply which logic.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#594

Post by UncleMeat »

oldcigarette wrote: post #90

I work at google and am vaxxed but this pisses me off. I decided that the vaccine was worth the risk and for the best overall but if someone makes a different calculus I can understand and respect that. IMHO they gone way outside the reasonable scope of an employer - this is a cultural decision at the society level - why the fuck does my employer give a shit about this. Unless the employees are only commuting back an…

I'm also at Google. Every single one of my reports who are intending to return to office have expressed concern and stress over unvaccinated peers in the office. Every single one.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#595

Post by reader_mode »

shaklee3 wrote: post #455
joshuahughes wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"just get vaccinated and not worry about getting fired" The word 'just' must be one of the most heavily used words of the last 18 months. The problem is that 'just' is the start of a slippery slope. Governments and organisations rarely withdraw authoritarian diktats, once we've allowed them in.

The vaccine has an overwhelming amount of data showing it's effective, and very little showing side effects. At some point it's a national responsibility to get it. If you don't, then there's nothing that says you should have a job at faang.

>The vaccine has an overwhelming amount of data showing it's effective, and very little showing side effects.

I see studies exploring long term/subtle effects of COVID, along with controls that were not infected. I don't see a lot of "vaccinated but not infected" and "vaccinated and infected" groups in these studies. I'd be far more convinced if those studies were done.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#596

Post by himinlomax »

oldcigarette wrote: post #90

I work at google and am vaxxed but this pisses me off. I decided that the vaccine was worth the risk and for the best overall but if someone makes a different calculus I can understand and respect that. IMHO they gone way outside the reasonable scope of an employer - this is a cultural decision at the society level - why the fuck does my employer give a shit about this. Unless the employees are only commuting back an…

I don't want to be forced to be around potentially infectious people. The vaccine, like all others, is not 100% effective. Unvaccinated people pose an avoidable risk to my health. I don't want them around me. I don't want to be forced to be around them. Unvaccinated people have made a choice to risk their lives, they don't get the choice to risk mine.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#597

Post by shadowgovt »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #463
_y5hn wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interesting discussions are not one-dimensional back-and-forth such as this one. It is when participants weigh multiple arguments against eachother and try to reach new insights. Discussion of value-systems are just hopeless, as there's no common ground.

That’s a really solid rule for productive discussions. The great difficulty would lie in actually enforcing it on HN. Maybe some sort of cool-down timer for posters, who are otherwise polite, getting too agitated? Some kind of rate limiting for new comments on a controversial submission?

Hacker News actually already has that to a first approximation (though if I understand correctly, rather than being applied to heated or controversial threads, it's applied to users who have difficulty consistently adhering to the site guidelines. Their accounts are flagged as not allowing more than a certain number of posts per hour).

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#598

Post by himinlomax »

joshuahughes wrote: post #423
deanc wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I mentioned in my comment, many folks have families. We are not dealing with individuals when it comes to a pandemic. We are dealing with contagion amongst bubbles of people. Many people have vulnerable people in their bubbles at home and need to make a living.

But how is this different from previously? Flu, common cold, various other viruses... all present a similar threat to that from covid and spread as easily. What has changed with covid to create so much additional fear and the subsequent authoritarian responses? Any decent person would just keep away from the office if they were ill. What's changed that now a particular course of action has to be mandated with the thr…

Why is it there is no lock down for the flu?

Answer: it's not the same disease.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#599

Post by himinlomax »

mwint wrote: post #588
avh02 wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what i think people forget is that this isn't (IMO) about what the company wants or whatever, it's about the fact that offices are a nasty space where everybody breathes everybody's air - and diseases simply don't give a crap about where that happens. I'm pretty sure if google were an outdoor office complex where everybody sat 10 meters apart from each other they wouldn't give a crap about your vaccination status. If…

Being personally educated on the risks to to people in my demographic, I would gladly sign an ironclad “I won’t sue the company if I get covid” contract to work in an office. If that’s the company’s concern, I suspect most people who hasn’t received a vaccine would sign such a contract.

Will you compensate financially the co-workers you happen to infect and who are vaccinated but for whom the vaccine didn't work (10% or so risk)?

It's not about you, nobody's stopping you from playing Russian roulette with your own skull. I personally do not want to be around unvaccinated people any more than I want to be on the same road as a drunk or street racer.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#600

Post by penultimatebro »

himinlomax wrote: post #596
oldcigarette wrote: post #90

I work at google and am vaxxed but this pisses me off. I decided that the vaccine was worth the risk and for the best overall but if someone makes a different calculus I can understand and respect that. IMHO they gone way outside the reasonable scope of an employer - this is a cultural decision at the society level - why the fuck does my employer give a shit about this. Unless the employees are only commuting back an…

I don't want to be forced to be around potentially infectious people. The vaccine, like all others, is not 100% effective. Unvaccinated people pose an avoidable risk to my health. I don't want them around me. I don't want to be forced to be around them. Unvaccinated people have made a choice to risk their lives, they don't get the choice to risk mine.

Then you’ll be opting to stay home? If everyone in the office is vaccinated you’ll be around only potentially infectious people.

>Unvaccinated people have made a choice to risk their lives, they don’t get the choice to risk mine.

Doesn’t the vaccine cover for this? You get the vaccine and it reduces your symptoms, making you less likely to end up hospitalized or die. Even vaccinated you can still get infected, get sick from and spread the virus.

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