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Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

cnbc.com

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Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#281

Post by nickik »

Aperocky wrote: post #127
hef19898 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all fairness there was a non-zero chance of Tesla running out of money at one point. At the final word on Tesla being worth what it is hasn't been spoken neither. I do have to give Musk credit for being able to maintain Tesla the way he does, under everyone else the company wouldn't exist anymore. Not that I think Tesla is particularly well run so, but Elon's ability to entertain the market and keep money flowing…

The ability to run pump and dumps in crypto with impunity definitely helps.

No it doesn't. Stop claiming this nonsense. It is totally irrelevant for Tesla financials.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#283

Post by itsoktocry »

mcot2 wrote: post #157
rberg wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nikola was building barely functional prototypes of their trucks years before Tesla was building barely functional Semi truck prototypes, for the record. If by "barely functional" you mean a metal skeleton on wheels that rolled down hills, then yes. I'm not a shill for Tesla as they definitely have made very questionable claims in the past, but to claim that Nikola's semi is in any way similar to Tesla is a bit of…

This person is a troll. The Tesla semi is not “barely functional”. They have been spotted driving all over the place and doing real world testing on actual highways and in cold weather. Production was already to be started except for a shortage of battery cells (due to the extreme popularity of their existing cars and powerwalls/megapacks) which they are working to remedy.

>This person is a troll.

That's a baseless accusation, where are the mods?

>They have been spotted driving all over the place and doing real world testing on actual highways and in cold weather.

Prototypes, with zero evidence they can achieve the claimed specifications. If you know otherwise, please, show us all. They are dependent on 4680 cells, which do not exist. They don't even have a factory, and they claimed the trucks would be ready for production 2 years ago. They will probably build something that works at some point in the future. Maybe Nikola could have as well? That is my point, where do you draw the line?

Now, what about FSD? And the solar shingles that "print money" that were faked on the set of Desperate Housewives and don't exist to this day? You know, they ones that Tesla shareholders are currently suing for? The ones that Tesla employees claim were fake in the deposition of said lawsuit? The ones you now buy are generic versions from China. What about the boring car tunnels; bit different from the old renderings, aren't they?

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#284

Post by gscott »

gamblor956 wrote: post #261
mbesto wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One company has endless growth potential, 80% gross margins, and every new customer served has marginal cost implications to the business. The other one does not. I think you can guess which one is which. For the record - I'm just as skeptical as many others are about tech valuations, but there is a legitimate reason to value companies they way we do, it's just not always a "its tech, so it has to be valued at BLAH",…

One company has endless growth potential, 80% gross margins, and every new customer served has marginal cost implications to the business. Mazda? Because according to their SEC filings Duolingo has pretty limited growth potential, increasing losses (or in other words, negative gross margins), and they spend a significant amount of money to attract each new paying customer. They only approach 80% gross margins if you…

And there are other competitors who can copy whatever they are doing. I agree Mazda provides more value.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#285

Post by itsoktocry »

rberg wrote: post #149
itsoktocry wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a ridiculously obvious attempt to associate with Tesla. Nikola was building barely functional prototypes of their trucks years before Tesla was building barely functional Semi truck prototypes, for the record. > What were they thinking? Were they being amoral and hoping to ride this pump and dump or did they actually buy into this shit? Fundamentally, what have they done that's so evil compared to, say, the multitu…

> Nikola was building barely functional prototypes of their trucks years before Tesla was building barely functional Semi truck prototypes, for the record. If by "barely functional" you mean a metal skeleton on wheels that rolled down hills, then yes. I'm not a shill for Tesla as they definitely have made very questionable claims in the past, but to claim that Nikola's semi is in any way similar to Tesla is a bit of…

>but to claim that Nikola's semi is in any way similar to Tesla is a bit of a stretch.

Okay, how much of a stretch? If they would have stuck a nowhere-near-production ready battery and drivetrain system into the Nikola trucks and pretended it was complete, that would have been fine? That probably wouldn't have been difficult, but equally fraudulent.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#286

Post by itsoktocry »

admax88q wrote: post #147
itsoktocry wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a ridiculously obvious attempt to associate with Tesla. Nikola was building barely functional prototypes of their trucks years before Tesla was building barely functional Semi truck prototypes, for the record. > What were they thinking? Were they being amoral and hoping to ride this pump and dump or did they actually buy into this shit? Fundamentally, what have they done that's so evil compared to, say, the multitu…

Well... Tesla actually sells real cars. Nikola so far looks little different than your average kickstarter that never delivers.

>Well... Tesla actually sells real cars.

So if you sell cars and land rockets, you can lie about other things?

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#287

Post by lmilcin »

yumraj wrote: post #267
ashtonkem wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve learned to cast a more cynical eye towards companies claiming to be accomplishing grand, ethical aims. Sometimes they’re right, of course, but it’s also a phenomenal way to sweep abuse and fraud under a rug.

> I’ve learned to cast a more cynical eye towards companies claiming to be accomplishing grand, ethical aims. People have stopped talking about Google's famed "Don't be Evil" thing.. But hey, it served a purpose for Google when it mattered.

It is really depressing that honor and integrity means nothing.

Do whatever you want and while claiming the opposite. If it blows up, hire a specialized PR company and pretend nothing happened.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#288

Post by anigbrowl »

morpheos137 wrote: post #152
pram wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given this market, the fact that it’s wholly fraudulent is incredibly bullish

Yeah actually deliving a product that sells is such legacy thinking...we badly need a hard crash to clear out the deadwood and hucksters in the economy.

I think relying on the market itself to do this is a terrible mistake.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#289

Post by itsoktocry »

skystarman wrote: post #218
itsoktocry wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a ridiculously obvious attempt to associate with Tesla. Nikola was building barely functional prototypes of their trucks years before Tesla was building barely functional Semi truck prototypes, for the record. > What were they thinking? Were they being amoral and hoping to ride this pump and dump or did they actually buy into this shit? Fundamentally, what have they done that's so evil compared to, say, the multitu…

Plenty to criticize Tesla and Elon about, to be sure, but a lot of Elon's predictions have turned out to be true at least when it comes to passenger vehicles. What they've done with the EV market for consumers is nothing short of remarkable. Obviously Solar and Semi are a different matter. Tesla was run by a technical founder (Stanford PhD pedigree fwiw) that knows his shit (though a bit crazy and prone to exaggerati…

>Tesla was run by a technical founder (Stanford PhD pedigree fwiw) that knows his shit (though a bit crazy and prone to exaggeration and hyperbole)

Musk was not a Stanford PhD nor a founder, if that's who you are referring to. If you can point me to any evidence of either that doesn't come from him, I'll be happy to stand corrected.

>He even hired his brother--a guy who used to install carpets--to run Nikola's hydrogen infrastructure.

Can you tell me what Kimball's qualifications are for sitting on the Tesla board?

I mean, I agree, the Nikola story is hilarious and stupid. But somehow other companies get away with what is the same thing. Milton didn't get to claim "aspiration", or that the trucks will "eventually" work.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#290

Post by renewiltord »

yupper32 wrote: post #231
rvz wrote: post #5

A great opportunity to short $NKLA, if you haven't already done it.

If you're reading an article about the indicting the founder of a company and someone is posting on HN that it's a good time to short, then it's too late to short.

Interestingly, if they had shorted it at the time they made the comment, they would currently be ahead.
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